They are again discussing the alcohol duty rise this morning on LBC, with 25 pubs a week closing over the past year a cut would probably have been a better idea.
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Duty increase.
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Hi. I have been watching the BBC news and there is going to be a majour change to the duty on th price of a pint. Under the old rules it was
The duty on beer is about 19p per litre per percentage of alcohol.
If your pint is 5% alcohol. Duty = 19p x 5% = 95p, but a pint is 568 millilitres so the duty on a pint is about 54p.
Acording to the goverment website,
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-alcohol-duty-rates/alcohol-duty-rate-changes
Duty on beer at least 3.5% but less than 8.5% ABV: £21.01 per litre of alcohol in the product. If you take this as red. a pint will now have £11.93 regardless if it is 3.5% or 8.5%
This is not per percentage of alcohol, it is a blanket charge within the range of 3.5 to 8.5.
Hi. I have been watching the BBC news and there is going to be a majour change to the duty on th price of a pint. Under the old rules it was
The duty on beer is about 19p per litre per percentage of alcohol.
If your pint is 5% alcohol. Duty = 19p x 5% = 95p, but a pint is 568 millilitres so the duty on a pint is about 54p.
Acording to the goverment website,
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-alcohol-duty-rates/alcohol-duty-rate-changes
Duty on beer at least 3.5% but less than 8.5% ABV: £21.01 per litre of alcohol in the product. If you take this as red. a pint will now have £11.93 regardless if it is 3.5% or 8.5%
This is not per percentage of alcohol, it is a blanket charge within the range of 3.5 to 8.5.
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Except as it's duty per litre of alcohol in the product then it does vary with the percentage alcohol in the beer. An 8% beer will have twice the amount of duty as a 4% beer.
@Cwrw666 is right, the amount of duty will still vary depending on the strength of the beer.
Pint of 4% ABV Beer = 568ml x 0.04 = 22.7ml of alcohol x £21.01 = 47.7p duty
Pint of 8% ABV Beer = 568ml x 0.08 = 45.4ml of alcohol x £21.01 = 95.5p duty
The bigger aspect of the change is the reduced duty rate (£9.27 per litre) for beers below 3.5% ABV. Which is why the market is about to be flooded with 3.4% beers, either as new recipes or modifications to reduce the strength of existing ones.
Pint of 3.5% ABV Beer = 568ml x 0.035 = 19.9ml of alcohol x £21.01 = 41.8p duty
Pint of 3.4% ABV Beer = 568ml x 0.034 = 19.3ml of alcohol x £9.27 = 17.9p duty
Pint of 4% ABV Beer = 568ml x 0.04 = 22.7ml of alcohol x £21.01 = 47.7p duty
Pint of 8% ABV Beer = 568ml x 0.08 = 45.4ml of alcohol x £21.01 = 95.5p duty
The bigger aspect of the change is the reduced duty rate (£9.27 per litre) for beers below 3.5% ABV. Which is why the market is about to be flooded with 3.4% beers, either as new recipes or modifications to reduce the strength of existing ones.
Pint of 3.5% ABV Beer = 568ml x 0.035 = 19.9ml of alcohol x £21.01 = 41.8p duty
Pint of 3.4% ABV Beer = 568ml x 0.034 = 19.3ml of alcohol x £9.27 = 17.9p duty
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Ahh that makes more sense, £11.93 per pint was looking steep but 3.7% of that is 44p (Fine light) or 5.1% (Goacher Gold star) 61p. Not quite so bad but still hefty.
Well not quite right.
The actual alcohol in a pint at 3.5 is 19.88%. That is the PURE ALCOHOL part of it. Under the old system the duty was on the product as a whole alcohol, water, hops, barley etc and that was specifically stated in the range of 3.5 to 8.5 as 19p per litre per percent of alcohol.
What you are saying is the £21.01 is for the pure alcohol content within the beer.
A pint at 5% was charged at 19p per liter per percentage. So
19p x 5% x 0.568 = 53.95 pence. And VAT at 20% on top of that. And thouse figures were official. complete with examples. I reget not taking screen prints of it.
The actual alcohol in a pint at 3.5 is 19.88%. That is the PURE ALCOHOL part of it. Under the old system the duty was on the product as a whole alcohol, water, hops, barley etc and that was specifically stated in the range of 3.5 to 8.5 as 19p per litre per percent of alcohol.
What you are saying is the £21.01 is for the pure alcohol content within the beer.
A pint at 5% was charged at 19p per liter per percentage. So
19p x 5% x 0.568 = 53.95 pence. And VAT at 20% on top of that. And thouse figures were official. complete with examples. I reget not taking screen prints of it.
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From the gov.uk website:
Alcohol Duty is based on the amount of pure alcohol in a product.
To work out the amount of Alcohol Duty due on your product, you multiply the number of litres of pure alcohol that your product contains by the appropriate duty rate.
- Work out how many litres of finished product you have.
- Work out how many litres of pure alcohol you have.
- Check the duty rate table in this guidance to find out what the appropriate rate of duty is for your product, taking into account its ABV strength.
- Work out how much the Alcohol Duty is for your product — multiply the number of litres of pure alcohol in your product by the appropriate rate of duty.
- Work out how much Alcohol Duty you have to pay for your product by rounding down to the nearest penny.
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They're literally changing the rules on the day the new ones come in - how is any business meant to operate in that environment?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...226-beer-duty#full-publication-update-history
[as to "why" they're doing this, it's tied up with Brexit freedoms to set our own duty rates, which in reality mean the freedom to increase smallpack beer and in particular wine, which is moving to a duty per ABV model like beer rather than the EU model of taxing per volune/bottle.]
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...226-beer-duty#full-publication-update-history
[as to "why" they're doing this, it's tied up with Brexit freedoms to set our own duty rates, which in reality mean the freedom to increase smallpack beer and in particular wine, which is moving to a duty per ABV model like beer rather than the EU model of taxing per volune/bottle.]
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Will be interesting to see what impact it has on peoples buying habits...the 'clientelle' at my local are generally very price sensitive and if as little as 10p per pint goes on their precious Carling then they'll hot-foot it down to the pub down the road to save a few pennies per pint. But other more craft beer based bars near me are already charging the equivalent of £6 - £7 per pint for the stronger hoppy craft beers, though selling by the third/half/two thirds, and they're really busy so clearly these people are less price sensitive and prepared to pay for decent beer.
I remember the days when beer tended to be around 3.5% to 4.5% before the 5% became the 'norm' and there certainly no shortage of people getting hammered in pubs (though back then as now its is always the smaller percentage that go too far that ruin it for everyone else) so if the government think this is a good way to coerce us into drinking weaker beer and save us from ourselves then they're kidding themselves.
I remember the days when beer tended to be around 3.5% to 4.5% before the 5% became the 'norm' and there certainly no shortage of people getting hammered in pubs (though back then as now its is always the smaller percentage that go too far that ruin it for everyone else) so if the government think this is a good way to coerce us into drinking weaker beer and save us from ourselves then they're kidding themselves.
The BBC today -
A major shake-up of the way alcohol is taxed could leave many drinks costing more from Tuesday.
Under what the Treasury says are new "common-sense" principles, tax is being levied according to a drink's strength.
Duty will increase overall, with most wines and spirits seeing rises, but will fall on lower-alcohol drinks and most sparkling wine.
Taxes on draught pints will not change, an additional measure designed to support pubs.
Alcohol duties have been frozen since 2020. These changes were originally scheduled for February this year but were postponed by Chancellor Jeremy Hunt as the cost-of-living crisis continued.
Now with prices still rising, though at a slower rate, the government is going ahead with a 10.1% rise in alcohol duties, and is also overhauling the system.
Drinks with alcohol by volume (ABV) below 3.5% will be taxed at a lower rate, but tax on drinks with ABV over 8.5% will stay the same, whether it is wine, spirit or beer.
As a result, sparkling wine, which was previously taxed at a higher rate than still wine, will be 19p cheaper, for a standard-strength bottle, if retailers pass on the tax changes by lowering prices. A can of pre-mixed gin and tonic would be 5p cheaper.
Tax on a typical bottle of still wine with ABV 12% will go up by 44p, but on wine with 15% ABV, tax will rise by 98p, according to the Wine and Spirits Trade Association (WSTA).
Spirits and fortified wines, such as sherry and port, will see steep rises.
"The changes we're making to the way we tax alcohol catapults us into the 21st century, reflecting the popularity of low-alcohol drinks and boosting growth in the sector by supporting small producers financially," the chancellor said.
The government said the new system of duties had been made possible by the UK's departure from the EU, and that it would support "wider UK tax and public health objectives".
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said lower duties on draught beers and ciders would "reduce the price of a pint" and support pubs.
Tax on draught beer in pubs will be up to 11p lower than tax on supermarket beer as a result of the changes - a measure that was announced in the Budget earlier this year.
William Robinson, managing director of Robinson Brewery, which operates 250 pubs, welcomed the difference in draught beer duty between pubs and supermarkets but said rising tax on other alcoholic drinks could be passed on to customers.
He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "There is clearly a benefit there of a lower duty rate on pubs but what will be going up is wines and spirits, they will be increasing…we'll have to all work out how we manage to pass those increases on to the consumer or how we can hold those increases and absorb them."
He said he thought individual businesses would take their own view. "At the end of the day, duty is a tax. It isn't a cost of goods so it is very hard to work out how you can absorb all of that," he said. "Ultimately and generally, duty is simply passed through because it is form of tax collection."
The trade association said the government had chosen to "impose more inflationary misery on consumers".
It warned that other economic pressures, including high inflation and "rocketing prices" for glass, would mean that many businesses, especially smaller firms, would not be able to stay afloat following these changes.
"Ultimately, the government's new duty regime discriminates against premium spirits and wine more than other products," WSTA chief executive Miles Beale said.
Wine from hotter countries, where the sun naturally produces higher alcohol content, would be penalised, he added.
The overhaul of alcohol excise is being introduced in two stages, with a second adjustment coming in February 2025, which will apply a full sliding scale of tax levels according to alcohol content.
The British Retail Consortium said its latest monthly survey of shop prices showed that prices were rising more slowly in July (at 7.6%), compared to June when they were rising at 8.4%.
BBC News
A major shake-up of the way alcohol is taxed could leave many drinks costing more from Tuesday.
Under what the Treasury says are new "common-sense" principles, tax is being levied according to a drink's strength.
Duty will increase overall, with most wines and spirits seeing rises, but will fall on lower-alcohol drinks and most sparkling wine.
Taxes on draught pints will not change, an additional measure designed to support pubs.
Alcohol duties have been frozen since 2020. These changes were originally scheduled for February this year but were postponed by Chancellor Jeremy Hunt as the cost-of-living crisis continued.
Now with prices still rising, though at a slower rate, the government is going ahead with a 10.1% rise in alcohol duties, and is also overhauling the system.
Drinks with alcohol by volume (ABV) below 3.5% will be taxed at a lower rate, but tax on drinks with ABV over 8.5% will stay the same, whether it is wine, spirit or beer.
As a result, sparkling wine, which was previously taxed at a higher rate than still wine, will be 19p cheaper, for a standard-strength bottle, if retailers pass on the tax changes by lowering prices. A can of pre-mixed gin and tonic would be 5p cheaper.
Tax on a typical bottle of still wine with ABV 12% will go up by 44p, but on wine with 15% ABV, tax will rise by 98p, according to the Wine and Spirits Trade Association (WSTA).
Spirits and fortified wines, such as sherry and port, will see steep rises.
"The changes we're making to the way we tax alcohol catapults us into the 21st century, reflecting the popularity of low-alcohol drinks and boosting growth in the sector by supporting small producers financially," the chancellor said.
The government said the new system of duties had been made possible by the UK's departure from the EU, and that it would support "wider UK tax and public health objectives".
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said lower duties on draught beers and ciders would "reduce the price of a pint" and support pubs.
Tax on draught beer in pubs will be up to 11p lower than tax on supermarket beer as a result of the changes - a measure that was announced in the Budget earlier this year.
William Robinson, managing director of Robinson Brewery, which operates 250 pubs, welcomed the difference in draught beer duty between pubs and supermarkets but said rising tax on other alcoholic drinks could be passed on to customers.
He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "There is clearly a benefit there of a lower duty rate on pubs but what will be going up is wines and spirits, they will be increasing…we'll have to all work out how we manage to pass those increases on to the consumer or how we can hold those increases and absorb them."
He said he thought individual businesses would take their own view. "At the end of the day, duty is a tax. It isn't a cost of goods so it is very hard to work out how you can absorb all of that," he said. "Ultimately and generally, duty is simply passed through because it is form of tax collection."
'Inflationary misery'
The WSTA said the measures represented the biggest tax rise on a standard bottle of wine for nearly 50 years.The trade association said the government had chosen to "impose more inflationary misery on consumers".
It warned that other economic pressures, including high inflation and "rocketing prices" for glass, would mean that many businesses, especially smaller firms, would not be able to stay afloat following these changes.
"Ultimately, the government's new duty regime discriminates against premium spirits and wine more than other products," WSTA chief executive Miles Beale said.
Wine from hotter countries, where the sun naturally produces higher alcohol content, would be penalised, he added.
The overhaul of alcohol excise is being introduced in two stages, with a second adjustment coming in February 2025, which will apply a full sliding scale of tax levels according to alcohol content.
The British Retail Consortium said its latest monthly survey of shop prices showed that prices were rising more slowly in July (at 7.6%), compared to June when they were rising at 8.4%.
BBC News
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From what I believe little breweries may pay less, from what I gather there is now a sliding scale for little breweries from zero rather than yesterdays sliding scale from 50% to 100%? Unless I've got it wrong?
Whose terrible idea was it to invite Sunak to pour pints at GBBF today?
Also, forgot the Duty draught relief will no longer apply to take out (e.g. growler fills).
As the brewer becomes liable for duty on point of production, not sale, surely they won't offer any containers which they haven't applied draught relief to? If that's the case then you assume growler fills will disappear (assuming no reseller wants to get in trouble with HMRC).
My local bar relies on these to exist so I'm quite worried for their future.
As the brewer becomes liable for duty on point of production, not sale, surely they won't offer any containers which they haven't applied draught relief to? If that's the case then you assume growler fills will disappear (assuming no reseller wants to get in trouble with HMRC).
My local bar relies on these to exist so I'm quite worried for their future.
I like the way the PM claimed this as yet another brexit achievement, don't remember this was a big issue in 2016, ah but then there's an election to win next year. Just wondering - no need for a pro or con brexit debate.
The current government seems to be a mess. I can sort of see the merit of taxing higher ABV beers more if they are drunk in similar quantities, since it’s good for our health. But taking port and fortified wines more…. really 
..they are not drunk in the same quantities so that just doesn’t make sense. More taxation is a disincentive to smaller producers, it just seems really really odd. I do however like the Scottish minimum unit pricing which seems it would have been a much better way of raising income from taxation. Ho hum, I generally prefer what I make anyway but I like to support craft breweries as well.
..they are not drunk in the same quantities so that just doesn’t make sense. More taxation is a disincentive to smaller producers, it just seems really really odd. I do however like the Scottish minimum unit pricing which seems it would have been a much better way of raising income from taxation. Ho hum, I generally prefer what I make anyway but I like to support craft breweries as well.
Bjorn Toulouse
Well-Known Member
shouldn't make much difference in Scotland we already pay about 20% - 25% more for beer in the supermarkets (and the extra money goes to the retailer not the government) bloody minimum unit pricing. Just means I wont be importing as much from England.
so the govt harps on about a 6% pay rise being inflationary then raises duty in some cases by 10%? - 
Bjorn Toulouse
Well-Known Member
so the govt harps on about a 6% pay rise being inflationary then raises duty in some cases by 10%? -
Nothing they do makes sense just now. They don't know what they are doing. Interesting that they reduced the duty on sparkling wine. Italy, France and Spain will be happy, pity about the UK distillers. Sombody in the cabenet must like fizz. Time to buy a still.
