Dry yeasties; Hydrate or not? - the final answer from Lallemand

[Druncan]

However, I will still hydrate as it's better to pour and distribute evenly IMHO?

 

[Clint]

When transferring the cooled wort to the fv I add the yeast mixing it in with the splashing and bubbles.
I did this yesterday afternoon with the CML Gretel yeast..its trying to get out of the bucket at the moment!

 

[Agentgonzo]

I wonder whether that holds true for other producers as well.

 

[MashBag]

I have always 'sprinkled' dried yeasts for bleddy years. Beers & wines. 10g to 120g. Many & most brands. Never had a fail.

 

[Pennine]

I wonder whether that holds true for other producers as well.

Fermentis also has said this, they recommend dry pitching.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Fermentis also has said this, they recommend dry pitching.

I think those are the only 2 real producers of dried yeast. MJ, CML etc just repackage as far as I'm aware. I normally dry-pitch, but have been rehydrating for strong beers. I might stop that practise now then.

 

[Sadfield]

I've been applying Fermentis's instructions to all dry yeasts for a couple of years. I've not noticed any difference between Safale, Lallemand or MJ.

Direct pitching:

Pitch the yeast directly in the fermentation vessel on the surface of the wort at or above the fermentation temperature.
Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available to avoid clumps. Ideally, the yeast will be added during the first part of the filling of the vessel; in which case hydration can be done at wort temperature higher than fermentation temperature, the fermenter being then filled with wort at lower temperature to bring the entire wort temperature at fermentation temperature.

② With prior rehydration:

Alternatively, sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or boiled and hopped wort at 25 to 29°C (77°F to 84°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes, gently stir and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

 

[Pennine]

I used to have issues with mangrove jack's yeast all the time. They were much slower to get going and occasionally never did. I know it's all the same but there must have been something going on with the repackaging process or shipping.

 

[Druncan]

With me it's the fact that my FV access is limited and it's easier to pre-mix with bottled water, into the ultrasonic bath then just pour as i'm recirculating after I bottom fill. (But only when the wort is<27*c) I tried Novalager as a dry pour and it clumped + was very slow (48hr) to start. But i'm still learning :tinhat:

 

[MashBag]

ultrasonic bath ?

 

[Agentgonzo]

I used to have issues with mangrove jack's yeast all the time. They were much slower to get going and occasionally never did. I know it's all the same but there must have been something going on with the repackaging process or shipping.

I wonder whether it's due to increased time in the distribution. It goes from the initial manufacturer, then to MJ, then to the distribution network, rather than from the manufacturer to the distribution network. I have no idea what the delay is, but probably only in the order of a few weeks.

I've had a few MJ batches that have under-attentuated (finishing at 1.020 from ~1.050) and so have been thinking about stopping using them.

 

[Pennine]

With me it's the fact that my FV access is limited and it's easier to pre-mix with bottled water, into the ultrasonic bath then just pour as i'm recirculating after I bottom fill. (But only when the wort is<27*c) I tried Novalager as a dry pour and it clumped + was very slow (48hr) to start. But i'm still learning :tinhat:

I was going to ask, there is nothing wrong with rehydrating it's just an extra step. Keep doing it if you have good results.

Also it's good to note, the manufacturers Llalemand and Fermentis are probably testing with the best treated packs available so that may translate differently after yeast has been shipped, and sat on warm or cold shelves for a while.

 

[Pennine]

I wonder whether it's due to increased time in the distribution. It goes from the initial manufacturer, then to MJ, then to the distribution network, rather than from the manufacturer to the distribution network. I have no idea what the delay is, but probably only in the order of a few weeks.

I've had a few MJ batches that have under-attentuated (finishing at 1.020 from ~1.050) and so have been thinking about stopping using them.

Yeah I also had two bandaid flavour infections with them too so I have not used them in many years. Maybe they are better now?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Also it's good to note, the manufacturers Llalemand and Fermentis are probably testing with the best treated packs available so that may translate differently after yeast has been shipped, and sat on warm or cold shelves for a while.

That's very true. I hadn't considered that.
I'm a bit disappointed with resellers of MJ yeast. Dried yeast has a long life, but my last couple of deliveries have only had a couple of months left on their BB date. I'll rehydrate these as a precaution

 

[The Baron]

All I can add is that I use CML and they are obviously shipped to them re-packaged and then sent through the post and never had a slow or bad ferment. It does sound like it is specific yeasts that may have a problem.
Out of interest what do MJ recommend re pitching?

 

[Agentgonzo]

"see datasheet or website for full description and rehydration directions"

 

[Agentgonzo]

https://help.mangrovejacks.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019267193-Do-I-have-to-rehydrate-my-yeast-

No, you don't have to. You can sprinkle in the yeast as is.
If you would like to rehydrate anyway, please see full rehydration instructions in our information booklet which you can download using the link at the top of this article.

Brewers need to make sure rehydrated yeast is within 5°C (9°F) of your wort temp to avoid subjecting the yeast to temperature shock.

Once rehydrated, immediately adjust the temperature of your rehydrated yeast by slowly mixing in small volumes of wort, staggering the additions by leaving 2-3 minutes between each adjustment, ensuring not to adjust the temperature by more than 10 °C with each addition. Do not allow the rehydrated yeast to attemperate by natural heat loss.

There has been some discussion out there that rehydrating the yeast increases the viability of the yeast, but also increases the risk of infection.

So it would need to be decided by you as the brewer as to how you would like to proceed.

 

[The Baron]

I do not do rehydration to be honest but if using MJ I would deffo think about it.
It seems to be causing a few issues according to the posters or just switch to a more reliable yeast and there is plenty of choice out there

 

[Clint]

I have used loads of MJ,CML plus Safale and Lallemand...no problem with any. Never rehydrate but have adopted the practice of pitching as I drop the wort to the fv which I think makes a difference. At the moment I'm using CML Midland for my Tribute clone and Gretel for the wheat. Both got going within 12 hours and are clacking along nicely. The wheat being characteristically enthusiastic!

 

[Pennine]

I would imagine CML in the UK is a good option due to proximity of the repack and climate. I am not sure where MJ is repacking, I thought it was Australia, but if it's not in the UK I would lean towards CML.

I could be wrong and maybe Llalemand/Fermentis do all the packaging at the manufacturing source though. I guess @Northern_Brewer would probably know.

Also my issue with MJ were back in 2016 and 2017 I haven't used them much since so I don't know if things have gotten better.