Dry yeast and hop combo

[Danny-CIPA]

Afternoon all, I'm looking for a dry yeast and hop combination for my next NEIPA. I've brewed with Lallemand Verdant IPA yeast last 2 brews and I'm not 100% sold on it though my 2nd attempt with it is much better. My partner got me a 6 can sampler from Verdant (talk about expensive ) for my birthday and there is a similar taste to them that I'm not massively keen on so I'm confident the yeast just isn't to my palette.

My last hop combo was tiny addition of Magnum at 60 minutes then a quite sizeable Citra/Galaxy in both whirlpool and late dry hop after a soft crash. Hops aroma and taste is quite nice but I'm thinking of dropping the Galaxy for my next brew so any suggestions from experience you've had for a dry yeast and hop combo will be much appreciated.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Afternoon all, I'm looking for a dry yeast and hop combination for my next NEIPA. I've brewed with Lallemand Verdant IPA yeast last 2 brews and I'm not 100% sold on it though my 2nd attempt with it is much better. My partner got me a 6 can sampler from Verdant (talk about expensive ) for my birthday and there is a similar taste to them that I'm not massively keen on so I'm confident the yeast just isn't to my palette.

My last hop combo was tiny addition of Magnum at 60 minutes then a quite sizeable Citra/Galaxy in both whirlpool and late dry hop after a soft crash. Hops aroma and taste is quite nice but I'm thinking of dropping the Galaxy for my next brew so any suggestions from experience you've had for a dry yeast and hop combo will be much appreciated.

I had a similar thing with Verdant that no one else seemed to be able to detect/find offensive. I found S-33 to work nicely for a NEIPA, but most English strains should work out well.

I'm a big fan of El Dorado, Cashmere and Nelson Sauvin hops with Citra. Galaxy can really take over!

 

[Danny-CIPA]

Thanks yeah I can't put my finger on it. I got 6 different beers and 2 of them were decent but to be fair I was half cut when I had them so I'll put that down to that. 8+ % beers were the worst offenders for me.

On the Galaxy note that's the conclusion I'm coming to myself I've noticed this last batch is really astringent at the back of the throat, granted I only dry hopped last Wednesday and Kegged Saturday and it has got better each day so I'm putting that down to hop burn which I've read somewhere Galaxy can be prone to.

Thanks for the suggestions ill have a read up on the yeast and hops

 

[Brew_DD2]

Thanks yeah I can't put my finger on it. I got 6 different beers and 2 of them were decent but to be fair I was half cut when I had them so I'll put that down to that. 8+ % beers were the worst offenders for me.

On the Galaxy note that's the conclusion I'm coming to myself I've noticed this last batch is really astringent at the back of the throat, granted I only dry hopped last Wednesday and Kegged Saturday and it has got better each day so I'm putting that down to hop burn which I've read somewhere Galaxy can be prone to.

Thanks for the suggestions ill have a read up on the yeast and hops

I found for me the Verdant yeast has a weird corny/raw grainy thing going on that I really didn't care for.

 

[Danny-CIPA]

I found for me the Verdant yeast has a weird corny/raw grainy thing going on that I really didn't care for.

Interesting I will report back when I taste it again I've been trying to find a description for it

 

[dmtaylor]

I like hops that don't taste like cat piss. I'd venture outside of Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, and Simcoe. See what else is out there. And maybe learn whether you're disliking the yeast or the hops or both.

 

[Danny-CIPA]

I like hops that don't taste like cat ****. I'd venture outside of Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, and Simcoe. See what else is out there. And maybe learn whether you're disliking the yeast or the hops or both.

Fair comment. I know I like Citra I drink a lot of normal IPAs with just citra and they are right up my street. I might start splitting my batches up and doing some single hop beers just to find out what works for me. I've only had 4 brew days so lots to learn.

 

[Danny-CIPA]

I had a similar thing with Verdant that no one else seemed to be able to detect/find offensive. I found S-33 to work nicely for a NEIPA, but most English strains should work out well.

I'm a big fan of El Dorado, Cashmere and Nelson Sauvin hops with Citra. Galaxy can really take over!

Just sipping on a can tonight single hopped with Nelson Sauvin and I've got to say it's a weird one. It's almost like the aroma is really sour makes your nose feel metallicy when smelling it but it tastes pretty good. I might enjoy it matched with Citra but as a complimentary addition.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Just sipping on a can tonight single hopped with Nelson Sauvin and I've got to say it's a weird one. It's almost like the aroma is really sour makes your nose feel metallicy when smelling it but it tastes pretty good. I might enjoy it matched with Citra but as a complimentary addition.

Yeah Nelson Sauvin can be a bit Marmite. I absolutely love the sharpness from it, but could understand why others wouldn't.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Afternoon all, I'm looking for a dry yeast and hop combination for my next NEIPA. I've brewed with Lallemand Verdant IPA yeast last 2 brews and I'm not 100% sold on it though my 2nd attempt with it is much better. My partner got me a 6 can sampler from Verdant (talk about expensive ) for my birthday and there is a similar taste to them that I'm not massively keen on so I'm confident the yeast just isn't to my palette.

Verdant is often described as "1318 plus vanilla", so you might want to try something that's closer to the original 1318. I've not tried it but AEB hint that their New-E has origins similar to 1318 so might be worth a go.

Otherwise you could go old-school with a Conan like Lallemand's New England, only catch is that Conans hate being dried so the cell counts aren't great in dry versions.

To be more modern, go the cold IPA route with Fermentis 34/70, or Lallemand's new Novalager for some red berry fruit.

My last hop combo was tiny addition of Magnum at 60 minutes then a quite sizeable Citra/Galaxy in both whirlpool and late dry hop after a soft crash. Hops aroma and taste is quite nice but I'm thinking of dropping the Galaxy for my next brew so any suggestions from experience you've had for a dry yeast and hop combo will be much appreciated.

The classic combo is Citra, Mosaic and something from the Southern Hemisphere with lots of polyphenols like Nectaron, Riwaka, Vic Secret, Rakau etc.

For the whirlpool you want something with lots of "survivables" (see this article from Scott Janish) - Idaho7 is the king there, but there's plenty of other options, Bravo is not the most complex but is a dirt cheap option for filling out the whirlpool.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Verdant is often described as "1318 plus vanilla", so you might want to try something that's closer to the original 1318. I've not tried it but AEB hint that their New-E has origins similar to 1318 so might be worth a go.

Otherwise you could go old-school with a Conan like Lallemand's New England, only catch is that Conans hate being dried so the cell counts aren't great in dry versions.

To be more modern, go the cold IPA route with Fermentis 34/70, or Lallemand's new Novalager for some red berry fruit.


The classic combo is Citra, Mosaic and something from the Southern Hemisphere with lots of polyphenols like Nectaron, Riwaka, Vic Secret, Rakau etc.

For the whirlpool you want something with lots of "survivables" (see this article from Scott Janish) - Idaho7 is the king there, but there's plenty of other options, Bravo is not the most complex but is a dirt cheap option for filling out the whirlpool.

Janish's New IPA book is great. I seem to remember him talking about Brewer's Gold also being a hero in terms of survivables. Some unexpected results in there. I used Bravo a lot on the back of the research he spoke about. It's a lovely hop.

 

[Clarence]

For the whirlpool you want something with lots of "survivables" (see this article from Scott Janish) - Idaho7 is the king there, but there's plenty of other options, Bravo is not the most complex but is a dirt cheap option for filling out the whirlpool.

A lot of the recipes I've come across call for Centennial at the <80C hopsteep. I tried it and it worked well. Palmer suggests kolsch yeast as an alternative to the ubiquitous W-34/70. I used CML Høg Norsk and it works just fine even if it takes a little longer to clear.
A point on style: as I understand it, cold IPA is supposed to be crystal clear, even filtered! A lot of the recipes I've looked at call, at least, for some kind of finings. Not a fan of finings in bottled beer, but I add a bit of "clarity" at the beginning of the fermentation and add pectolase with the dry hop charge. (I've heard that hops can contain up to 2% of pectin). Don't know if it makes a difference as my bottles still take 6 weeks to become perfectly clear.

Latest version is an attempt at an all NZ hopped cold IPA with Moutere in the kettle, Wai-iti in the steep and equal parts of NZH-101, Superdelic and Nectaron for dry hopping. W-34 /70 this time. Had a crafty (and I'll-considered) taster after two weeks and my first thoughts were that the hop hit was lighter than the classic model and that the kolsch yeast provided more character. But I tipped the rest of the glass as the beer was still sweet from unfermented priming sugar and it hadn't quite come together yet.
A good source of recipes is at Wild About Hops NZ.

 

[clib]

S-04 comes into its own when used with NEIPA hops, in my opinion. A good dry yeast option.

In terms of hops. Citra, Mosaic, Idaho 7. Columbus and/or Simcoe if you're feeling adventurous. Both pungent, go lightly.

 

[Clarence]

S-04 comes into its own when used with NEIPA hops, in my opinion. A good dry yeast option.

In terms of hops. Citra, Mosaic, Idaho 7. Columbus and/or Simcoe if you're feeling adventurous. Both pungent, go lightly.

I would never have dreamt of using S-O4 in a million years. I'll look into that one.
...and here we are, on this page: Fermentis New England IPA Yeast Strains

 

[Danny-CIPA]

Thanks all for the comprehensive suggestions I will take some of this and formulate my next Recipe. I'm sold on the Idaho 7, Citra & Mosaic as my next test. Just to settle on the yeast now. I've got some S-04 and Bry-97 in the fridge so that's the easy option. Anyone made a NEIPA with Bry-97?

 

[Clarence]

Thanks all for the comprehensive suggestions I will take some of this and formulate my next Recipe. I'm sold on the Idaho 7, Citra & Mosaic as my next test. Just to settle on the yeast now. I've got some S-04 and Bry-97 in the fridge so that's the easy option. Anyone made a NEIPA with Bry-97?

Wouldn't be my choice. The one time I used it, I found to to have an "eggy" taste. Sure that mellowed out, but NEIPAs are not for storing, I understand.
To be fair, I've never heard anyone else complain of that.

 

[clib]

I would never have dreamt of using S-O4 in a million years. I'll look into that one.
...and here we are, on this page: Fermentis New England IPA Yeast Strains

View attachment 92896

According to the mega thread on HBT about the Tree House yeast, it is about 94% S-04, iirc. With small amounts of T-58 and WB-06. According to DNA analysis. Though i haven't read the thread for a long time. I've had beers made with S-04 and tropical hops and they have been good. I think Verdant does a good job too, tbh, but I've used it a fair bit and I like it most in darker, maltier, beers, paradoxically. Made a porter yesterday and pitched Verdant.

 

[clib]

Could be well worth using a mix of S-33 and S-04. I've not done that but might do now I've thought of it! Actually I have used it, but only in an english bitter!

 

[Brew_DD2]

Could be well worth using a mix of S-33 and S-04. I've not done that but might do now I've thought of it! Actually I have used it, but only in an english bitter!

I'm a fan of s-33 in a NEIPA, and S-04 works well too. All these "NEIPA" varieties are all just old English yeasts that throw out fruity esters anyway.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I would never have dreamt of using S-O4 in a million years.

I meant to suggest S-04 with a bit of T-58 as a nod to the HBT thread mentioned by clib, where someone did DNA fingerprinting on Treehouse Julius, one of the original cult NEIPAs and found a mix of S-04, T-58 and WB-06. Subsequent experiments suggested they were in a ratio of somewhere around 87:8:5 - you've got to be really careful with WB-06 as it trashes hop flavour, but can give a bit of a bubblegum thing in small amounts. It's been suggested that Treehouse may have moved away from that now, which would make sense as they now have the money to propagate yeast inhouse.

It kinda makes sense - we know 1318 is a Whitbread yeast, it's a very close relative of 1098, and S-04 is reputed to come from Whitbread, even if it may not have all the biochemical tricks of Verdant or 1318. T-58 is effectively a member of the EDME family (Windsor, S-33, Munton ordinary) with the phenolic POF genes, but in my hands it's very biotransformy which people don't seem to see with S-33 etc.

Anyone made a NEIPA with Bry-97?

BRY-97 is just Lallemand's member of the Chico family so like US-05 and WLP001 - the original yeast that Sierra Nevada got from Seibel was BRY-96 and so it was nicknamed as that "+1". So it wouldn't bring much to the NEIPA party.

The one time I used it, I found to to have an "eggy" taste.

That implies stressed yeast, you shouldn't be getting that from a healthy BRY-97 fermentation.