Does this sound like an awful idea?

[TheKench]

Hello all,

Had a "brainwave" (though that may be too strong a word) whilst helping put on a batch of sloe gin. Please can someone tell me whether this is going to be purely awful or whether it might work. If it's been covered elsewhere, point me in the right direction and kill the thread!

Mods - I'm really not looking to start a discussion about anything high-strength. So please delete this thread if it starts going that way.

Since you can make a fruity alcoholic tipple from fruit and an alcohol base (it was the sloe gin that got me thinking), would it be ridiculous to make an alcoholic base (something in the vein of a Killju, so a fermented sugar solution) using one of the higher-strength wine yeasts, and then use this base + fruit + sugar to make a fruity and sweet moderately alcoholic beverage? It seems to my mind to be quite an easy way of going about it if you want something quite sweet, as you could kill and filter the yeast when you finish off the Base, and you'd get plenty of residual sugar and sweetness in the final product.

Or am I just missing the point? Is it just easier to ferment the fruit to start with? Would it just taste foul?

I know i could just crack on and give it a whirl (and I probaby will), but If the idea is stupid to start with then I would rather get shot down before I waste my time.

Thanks in advance!

Rob

 

[wezil]

probably easier to use a normal wine yeast + the fruit and plenty of sugar and ferment as normal, and then taste it at regular intervals until your happy with the sweetness then add the stabiliser to kill the yeast (leave it a few days before testing, i use a kids medicine syringe (sterilised first of course) for this! (I start a glass and theres no going back)!!!

 

[Gayle]

I've a bag of sloes in the freezer and have been thinkin-g of doing what you've suggested, instead of buying actual gin. Use plenty of sugar to get it close to the SG you want, and use a high-alcohol/dessert yeast. A regular wine yeast fermented my last WOW to 15%, which I thought was quite high, so you might not even need high-alcohol yeast. I think you can buy gin flavouring as well, to help cover the off tastes of the brew - there are some funny tastes, but hopefully wont matter too much with lots of sloes (or whatever fruit you want, but I've made strawberry vodka before and it was a terrible idea) and sugar in there afterwards. It's not an expensive thing to make so worth a try IMO, someone will drink it I'm sure

 

[TheKench]

That's my thinking. Plenty of fruit kicking around, with autumn here. And gin IS expensive. So it is surely worth a smash. And you're right, perhaps some juniper berries to give it a gin "kick", or whatever. You don't use expensive gin for sloe gin, so it doesn't have to taste expensive, eh!

I would say that I will make some, get my friends to test it, and report back with results. But it will inevitably be alcoholic, so they will inevitably be positive results!

 

[GeorgeSalt]

I'm interested in how this works, but I personally feel that the result with sloe gin is worth the price of the gin! As far as I can see you're going to end-up with a high alcohol wine infused with sloes rather than a fruit liqueur.

As an alternative, I wonder how a sloe gin fortified port-style wine would work out. That would stretch the gin a little further.

 

[TheKench]

Valid point. The better the ingredients you use, the better the result.

It's not just sloes that I want to test out; plenty of raspberries, blackberries etc around. Might have to make half a gallon of alcohol base and do a few different varieties!

 

[Ken L]

Sloe gin, damson gin/vodka, blackberry vodka and raspberry vodka are all good but really don't work with less than 40% spirit.
Of course you could always do a 20% wash and flavour it with one of the Polish syrups.

 

[Kirk]

Would be a case of flavoring an otherwise unflavored "wine" base.
Equally Bob Smiths book concerning late addition fruit wine is similar to an extent. He adds fruit towards the end of fermentation, you add it after fermentation.

If you ever visit Holland they sell what is base spirit, unavailable in the UK as it is illegal. It is (as best I know) what turns up when whatever is distilled, the stuff that comes out is fairly plain and unflavored.

If you are over there you could look for it, you then have the spirit to throw fruit etc into and allow it to absorb the flavor. It is sold there for use in what we term Rumpots, just not rum.

 

[cf.]

I have 3 pounds of sloes in the freezer and I like my sloe gin . I honestly think it would be a waste of good sloes

 

[TheKench]

Thanks guys. In summary, it would probaby work, it would probably not be awful, but it would probably be easier to stick to the well-trodden path of just fermenting the fruit from the start to give more flavour. But if you have a small amount of fruit and want to make a stronger/dessert "infused" wine, then it might not be a bad shout.

Not a bad way of using up odd fruits!

 

[GeorgeSalt]

You've inspired me to an idea with this thread.. I may try fortifying a hedgerow wine with sloe gin..

 

[oldbloke]

Opinions on kliju seem to be divided but generally weighted towards "needs filtering" in other threads.

I've recently bottled a melomel, which was raspberries and strawberries with a lot of honey. OK honey has flavour that sugar doesn't, but it's not so far off. I had originally intended to use a high tolerance yeast but in the end bottled it when the ordinary wine yeast gave up. It's just about as sweet as the flavoured spirits we do and from that I've estimated it at wine strength (next bottle I open I'll take a hydrometer sample and back-calculate). Pleasant drink.

Even closer to fermenting straight sugar, I've got a notmead on the go, made with golden syrup. This one does have a high tolerance yeast - Gervin GV4 which with luck will push it to 20. It's also got a little bit of black treacle and a bunch of spices in it. Smelt great last time the lock came out so I could top it up.

We generally use a mixer with our hedgerow-flavoured spirits, so fermenting something to 20 gives you the same final product, but you have to get the sweetness and flavours right as you wouldn't want to dilute further when serving.

 

[TheKench]

Completely agree that whatever base I use (Kilju was more of a principle than a requirement, theoretically it could just as easily be something not dissimilar to Mead) it will have to be as clear as possible and, whilst not neutral, it can't clash with the fruit. So that will take some playing around with, but I don't expect to get it right at the first attempt.

Melomel sounds intriguing. I think the point for me is that if I want something sweet and high(er) alcohol, I need to either go with the normal fermentation route, kill the yeast, then backsweeten, or wait for the yeast to run out and hope there is residual sugar left (difficult at higher ABV), or attempt the comedy third method this thread started from.

From those I have spoken to, using a mixer is the preferred method, so I'm basically aiming to make my own mixer.

Should be foraging some blackberries this weekend. Missus wants to make some of them into dessert no doubt, so I shall see what is left and come up with some sort of plan. Freeze them down and wait for the best opportunity!

 

[oldbloke]

I think if you use a high tolerance yeast and just keep adding sugar every time it seems to be giving up, eventually it will give up then you can taste for sweetness and adjust.
I reckon you'd be very lucky to get GV4 past 21%, and it seems quite happy to start in a solution with enough sugars for about 16 and then have the next 4% worth added after about a week, so I'd do that and have a taste and/or try a bit more sugar when it's just about done.

 

[TheKench]

Outstanding, thanks for the help.

 

[GeorgeSalt]

I've been researching some recipes for a book of liqueurs, and I think I've found something for you..

I haven't tried this one myself, but it sounds worth a batch.

Sloe and red wine liqueur
600 g sloes
70 cl red wine
1 cinnamon stick
3 cloves
3 star anis
Zest of a lemon
300 g honey
70 cl vodka

Break-up the sloes lightly with a masher or rolling pin, making sure that some of the stones are cracked for flavour. Place in a sterile container and add the red wine, spices and the lemon zest. Allow to steep for 3-4 days in a cool place. Strain the liquor into a saucepan, bring to the boil and allow to reduce slightly. Allow to cool to about 40C and add the honey, stirring until it dissolves. Once completely cool add the vodka. Bottle and allow to mature. Protect from the light to preserve the colour.


That's the recipe as I've found it. I'd be tempted to try it with a red hedgerow wine (perhaps elderberry?) and replace the vodka with gin.