Do kit instructions tend to overdose on priming sugar?

[doram]

I am wondering what is your ultimate amount of priming sugar for a~40 pint batch of ale?
Aiming for pub-like carbonation, I started by following instructions and adding 70-85 grams of corn sugar, but found this is too much for my taste. I therefore kept reducing, until I got to about 45 grams for the batch.
I am curious to know what others find as a good amount of carbonation for an English ale (say TT Landlord for example), and how much sugar you add to a 40 pint batch?

 

[MyQul]

For beers that you would normally find on a hand pump (such as TT Landlord), I normally overcarbonate them on purpose to 5g/L then when it comes to pouring from the bottle. I tip the beer into a 2L jug from a little height. This causes a massive head. I then wait for this to go down and then pour the beer into a glass as normal.
I find doing this mimics a hand pulled pint with a good head and good lacing all the way down. No idea why this seems to work though other than pouring it into the 2L jug knocks out a good deal of the carbonation

 

[Clint]

Check out the priming section on the forum calculator.

 

[doram]

For beers that you would normally find on a hand pump (such as TT Landlord), I normally overcarbonate them on purpose to 5g/L then when it comes to pouring from the bottle. I tip the beer into a 2L jug from a little height. This causes a massive head. I then wait for this to go down and then pour the beer into a glass as normal.
I find doing this mimics a hand pulled pint with a good head and good lacing all the way down. No idea why this seems to work though other than pouring it into the 2L jug knocks out a good deal of the carbonation

Very interesting. So you over carbonate just to be able to get rid of carbonation when you pour? Any idea why that would be better than starting off with less carbonation?
I also find that I have too much head even with low amounts of priming sugar (50-55 grams per 40 pints). No matter how slow I pour on the side of the glass, it fills with a few cm of beer and everything else is head, and I need to wait a few minutes to fill a few more cm of beer. But when I buy bottle-conditioned beer, I just pour the whole bottle to a glass and get a nice head in one go. Any idea why this is happening to my home brew?

 

[doram]

Check out the priming section on the forum calculator.

Thanks Clint. I am familiar with the calculator, but as it gives a rage (for example, British ales is 1.5-2.0 volumes), recommended amount varies a lot (20 litres at 1.5 is 56 grams, but at 2 it's 100 grams). This is why I am curious to know what other home brewers find a good amount of carbonation.

 

[Duxuk]

Are you leaving your brews for long enough before bottling, Doram? 2 weeks is a good guide to be sure that fermentation is finished. (Though you should check with a hydrometer over at least 2 days, says the man who never does!)

 

[MyQul]

Very interesting. So you over carbonate just to be able to get rid of carbonation when you pour? Any idea why that would be better than starting off with less carbonation?
I also find that I have too much head even with low amounts of priming sugar (50-55 grams per 40 pints). No matter how slow I pour on the side of the glass, it fills with a few cm of beer and everything else is head, and I need to wait a few minutes to fill a few more cm of beer. But when I buy bottle-conditioned beer, I just pour the whole bottle to a glass and get a nice head in one go. Any idea why this is happening to my home brew?

Im not sure why it works for me but I tend to get a longer lasting head and better lacing

If your getting loads of carbonation/head you may have a wild yeast infection. This can chew through all the sugars in your beer making it over carbed. De-gass one of your fizzy beers (by pouring the beer repeatedly between two pint glasses) and take a gravity reading. If its really low, this may indicate you have an infection.
The only other thing I can think of is are you using the fullers strainof yeast/WLP002/WY1968? as this has a tendency to overcarbonate in bottles

 

[doram]

Are you leaving your brews for long enough before bottling, Doram? 2 weeks is a good guide to be sure that fermentation is finished. (Though you should check with a hydrometer over at least 2 days, says the man who never does!)

Hi Duxuk, yes, I forgot to mention that I make sure fermentation is over and I have no residual sugar. I always leave it for at least two weeks, make sure there is no activity and record FG with a hydrometer.
I take it from your reply that you would use more priming sugar than me. May I ask what you find is a good amount?

 

[doram]

Im not sure why it works for me but I tend to get a longer lasting head and better lacing

If your getting loads of carbonation/head you may have a wild yeast infection. This can chew through all the sugars in your beer making it over carbed. De-gass one of your fizzy beers (by pouring the beer repeatedly between two pint glasses) and take a gravity reading. If its really low, this may indicate you have an infection.
The only other thing I can think of is are you using the fullers strainof yeast/WLP002/WY1968? as this has a tendency to overcarbonate in bottles

Could be an infection. Never thought about that, as it tastes good to me, but maybe I am just used to it. :-) This batch is nearly gone, and I have since improved my sanitation regime, so it will be interesting to see if I am getting different results in my current batches.
P.S 1. It's not the yeast you mentioned. Just plain dry yeast that came with a kit.
P.S 2. What amount of carbonation do you find good for a TT Landlord style ale? Calculators say 1.5 to 2.0, but the range is quite big - 2.0 requires almost double the amount of priming sugar compared to 1.5.

 

[MyQul]

Could be an infection. Never thought about that, as it tastes good to me, but maybe I am just used to it. :-) This batch is nearly gone, and I have since improved my sanitation regime, so it will be interesting to see if I am getting different results in my current batches.
P.S 1. It's not the yeast you mentioned. Just plain dry yeast that came with a kit.
P.S 2. What amount of carbonation do you find good for a TT Landlord style ale? Calculators say 1.5 to 2.0, but the range is quite big - 2.0 requires almost double the amount of priming sugar compared to 1.5.

Ive had infections before and they didnt effect the taste to give any off flavour, just fermented out all the sugar so the beer became overcarbed, thin and watery

As I say I overcarb my bitters then knock the carbonation out, so Im not exactly sure what the carbonation level ends up as

 

[Duxuk]

Hi Duxuk, yes, I forgot to mention that I make sure fermentation is over and I have no residual sugar. I always leave it for at least two weeks, make sure there is no activity and record FG with a hydrometer.
I take it from your reply that you would use more priming sugar than me. May I ask what you find is a good amount?

I tend to use 80g in a keg for 23l. In bottles I'm reluctant to batch prime since using half a level teaspoon gives a low carbonation and a level teaspoon give it a bit of life like many a commercial bottle.

 

[Pavros]

I bottle all my brews and batch prime. Usually 80g/20l if I want a traditional pint or 100g/20l which I find is similar to commercial bottled beer. I did once use 120g/20l which resulted in far too big a head (ie do you want a flake in that? )

 

[Gunge]

Less is more... or summat like that. I keep priming to such a minimum ( ie 1tbs per 21l batch ) that I sometimes wonder why I bother. Old habits etc. I get consistently creamy, tight heads with long-lasting lacing and none of that horrible fizziness redolent of cheap canned lager. Kit instructions and published calculators are absolutely bloody rubbish IMO.
Do kits still say 1/2 to 1tsp per bottle? Christ - makes my toes curl just thinking about it.

 

[Drunkula]

Are you using a pressure barrel with the usual twist on tap? If so they're a pain in the arse and they always cause loads of froth. People say you can buy better taps that fit. The best I could do with a standard tap is attach a length of tubing to it (soften it hot water, stretch with a needle nose pliers - lots of effin n jeffin) so you can fill a glass from the bottom. It helps a little bit.

I was even thinking about doing this again with a barrel I've got and then adding a picnic tap to it. I could use a flow controller doing that, too.

 

[BeerisGOD]

Are you leaving your brews for long enough before bottling, Doram? 2 weeks is a good guide to be sure that fermentation is finished. (Though you should check with a hydrometer over at least 2 days, says the man who never does!)

I second this
It's normally on brew day at a risk I just hate opening the lid til then unless I dry hop
I might make an exception with the current one though as the plan is to bottle up and get another one on this weekend!

 

[doram]

Less is more... or summat like that. I keep priming to such a minimum ( ie 1tbs per 21l batch ) that I sometimes wonder why I bother. Old habits etc. I get consistently creamy, tight heads with long-lasting lacing and none of that horrible fizziness redolent of cheap canned lager. Kit instructions and published calculators are absolutely bloody rubbish IMO.
Do kits still say 1/2 to 1tsp per bottle? Christ - makes my toes curl just thinking about it.

Wow, interesting. You do about 15 grams, while others do 80-100 grams or more. I thought more people will say around 40-50 grams, like me, but no one said that, yet. :-) Maybe I should start a poll. :-)
Just to clarify, I am talking about bottles, and I prime the whole batch, not per bottle.

 

[Gunge]

Wow, interesting. You do about 15 grams, while others do 80-100 grams or more. I thought more people will say around 40-50 grams, like me, but no one said that, yet. :-) Maybe I should start a poll. :-)
Just to clarify, I am talking about bottles, and I prime the whole batch, not per bottle.

Ye that's right... and I bottle and batch-prime too. I should have added that I fill my bottles leaving the barest minimum headspace, so no gas is wasted pressuring an empty space. I guess the standard inch is there as a safety precaution but I've never came any near bottle-bomb territory without it. Except for the time I used Fuller's yeast which doesn't know when to stop. Ain't that right MyQul lol!

 

[MyQul]

Ye that's right... and I bottle and batch-prime too. I should have added that I fill my bottles leaving the barest minimum headspace, so no gas is wasted pressuring an empty space. I guess the standard inch is there as a safety precaution but I've never came any near bottle-bomb territory without it. Except for the time I used Fuller's yeast which doesn't know when to stop. Ain't that right MyQul lol!

Nuffin' to do wiv me, Guv'ner *wanders off whistling*

 

[mgrds]

Ye that's right... and I bottle and batch-prime too. I should have added that I fill my bottles leaving the barest minimum headspace, so no gas is wasted pressuring an empty space. I guess the standard inch is there as a safety precaution but I've never came any near bottle-bomb territory without it. Except for the time I used Fuller's yeast which doesn't know when to stop. Ain't that right MyQul lol!

Headspace is important is gives leeway in priming . Its not just exploding bottles but helps avoid overcarbonated and over fizzy beers.

Differnt beer styles should also have a different mix of slow fermenting and fast fermenting sugars . with fining and and a temperature drop is is quite possible to to clear you beer , for fermentation to appear to stop but for slow hard to ferment sugars to remain. This is also most likely if repeatedly syphon your brew off the yeast - using secondary and tertiary vessel.

IN these circumstances you need to be careful with priming sugar as these harder to ferment sugars can restart but as the natural yeast is in very small numbers can vary between bottles - giving you some over fizzy and some not - you don'#t need a wild yeast or infection for this, the brewing yeast is quite capable of it !

Kit beers can be a proble. In all grain beers I know mash temp and I know the goods mix and the the likely mix of unfermentable and slow fermenting sugars. In a kit I don't now this. Cheaper kits with a heavy dependence on sucrose likely won't have so much residual sugar so can have more priming sugar at bottling or barreling , kegging time (which may be why they appear to ovrprime to experienced all grain brewers (though IMHO they do often recommend priming with too much sugar)

ON cleanliness and sanitising please remember anything inside a lump or gunky mass does not get sanitised. It is quite possible to brew a high percentage of successful brews with good thorough cleaning and rinsing and no sanitising if ingredients encounter boiling water . But if you only sanitise and are not careful about cleaning first infections will get through.

PS on heat remember splashing with boiling water won't sterilise stuff in side a clump of gunk - but holding at boiling or high temp for a long time so the internal temp of gunk rises will - though you can still get yucky off flavours fromt eh gunk though no infection. So be thorough in cleaning.