Covid - Plan B & Omicron

[Chippy_Tea]

Unvaccinated Germans to be banned from many places and Mandatory vaccinations could be on the way, if they bring this in i can see it snowballing.




Germany has decided to tighten restrictions for those unvaccinated against COVID-19.

People without the jab won't be able to access non-essential shops, restaurants, places of culture or leisure, outgoing chancellor Angela Merkel announced on Thursday.

The new steps were taken after a meeting between Merkel, her successor Olaf Scholz and the leaders of the country's 16 regions.

They also confirmed that a draft law on mandatory vaccination, which Scholz supports, would be submitted to parliament for entry into force in February or March.

“The situation is our country is serious,” Merkel told reporters in Berlin, calling the measure an “act of national solidarity.”

She said officials also agreed to require masks in schools, impose new limits on private meetings and aim for 30 million vaccinations by the end of the year.

Merkel also said that parliament will debate the possibility of imposing a general vaccine mandate that would come into force as early as February.

About 68.7% of the population in Germany is fully vaccinated, far below the minimum of 75% the government is aiming for.

Finance Minister Olaf Scholz, who is expected to be elected chancellor by a centre-left coalition next week, said on Tuesday that he backs a general vaccine mandate, but favours letting lawmakers vote according to their personal conscience rather than party lines on the matter.

The rise in COVID-19 cases over the past several weeks and the arrival of the new omicron variant have prompted warnings from scientists and doctors that medical services in the country could become overstretched in the coming weeks unless drastic action is taken.

Some hospitals in the south and east of the country have already transferred patients to other parts of Germany because of a shortage of intensive care beds.

Agreeing on what measures to take has been complicated by Germany's political structure — with the 16 states responsible for many of the regulations — and the ongoing transition at the federal level.

Germany's disease control agency reported 73,209 newly confirmed cases Thursday. The Robert Koch Institute also reported 388 new deaths from COVID-19, taking the total since the start of the pandemic to 102,178.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/12/02/germany-announces-a-lockdown-for-its-unvaccinated

 

[alfajerry]

As of 20 November, the US had seen 51,424 deaths with Covid of people under 50. Still only 1 in 15 of the total, but it's a staggering number :

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku

Because they're the most obese country in the world?

 

[franana]

I like the german approach. I'm sure the anti vaxx people will come screeching with some incoherent point about second class citizens or whatever but I think it's hard to argue against that from a point of "I refuse this free and safe vaccine because I read some facebook posts". This way it's not a vaccine mandate per se, it's just you choosing to opt out of the majority of public life because you want to be contrarian.

 

[Bernie]

Because they're the most obese country in the world?

Although the USA has a lower mortality rate than Britain.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I like the german approach. I'm sure the anti vaxx people will come screeching with some incoherent point about second class citizens or whatever but I think it's hard to argue against that from a point of "I refuse this free and safe vaccine because I read some facebook posts". This way it's not a vaccine mandate per se, it's just you choosing to opt out of the majority of public life because you want to be contrarian.

We had bit of an argument in one Covid thread when a member said something along the lines of -

If a person refuses to be vaccinated for any other reason than a medical one they should not expect to be treated in hospital if they then get covid.

If a person refuses to be vaccinated for any other reason than a medical one they should not be allowed into indoor places with those that chose to have it to keep themselves and others safe.

I think by Summer we will either go mandatory or will have similar rules to the above forced on us i would like to think by then the "because I read some facebook posts" types you mention above will have changed their views on the dangers.

 

[DavidDetroit]

Why do people thh

Because they're the most obese country in the world?

That's not accurate. You should mention "First World."
And, if you're from the UK or another First World country, can you really be proud of anything but a zero-obesity number? Twenty-five percent of adults that are obese isn't anything to be proud of either.
Also, is the correlation strictly "COVID deaths 50 and under are caused by obesity"? It would follow, then, that the UK (or wherever) is in a similar boat.
But if you're just taking the p*** and were making a thoughtless comment, ignore the above and carry on.
@Clint--did I use the idiom correctly this time?

 

[DavidDetroit]

i would like to think by then the "because I read some facebook posts" types you mention above will have changed their views on the dangers.

I would take that scenario becoming a reality over any Christmas presents this year.

 

[Hop_it]

We had bit of an argument in one Covid thread when a member said something along the lines of -

If a person refuses to be vaccinated for any other reason than a medical one they should not expect to be treated in hospital if they then get covid.

If a person refuses to be vaccinated for any other reason than a medical one they should not be allowed into indoor places with those that chose to have it to keep themselves and others safe.

I think by Summer we will either go mandatory or will have similar rules to the above forced on us i would like to think by then the "because I read some facebook posts" types you mention above will have changed their views on the dangers.

The British way has in recent times tended strongly towards achieving a consensus by persuasion rather than by force. Nobody likes being told what to do, even if/when they are either misguided or wrong. I sincerely hope that the dissenters in this country can be persuaded to get themselves and their families vaccinated at the earliest opportunity.

Denying these people treatment in our society is inhumane (even if they have been stupid). However, I do feel that there is a strong case to restrict access to certain enclosed spaces to fully vaccinated people and those able to supply evidence of an up to date negative test when there is a perceived risk to the general public. Although I do accept that the interpretation of "perceived risk" can be somewhat subjective. It is up to the government to make a valid and convincing case for any restrictions. The only way to achieve a mandate in a democracy is when the majority buy-in to the idea. Not an easy task, but surely not impossible?

 

[Bernie]

You'd think that there'd be a greater effort to find a TB vaccine, a disease that kills more people.

 

[DavidDetroit]

a disease that kills more people.

Source please.

 

[obscure]

Source please.

Well last year it was 1.5 million, and it is similar numbers each year, while we do have a vaccine for TB it is generally considered not to be effective unless given very young. Given a) the relatively low rates of TB in the UK, and b) that it can be treated with antibiotics it is not given routinely, so yes currently the numbers are less than COVID.

The real concern with TB is the increasing rates of antibiotic resistance, and as this continues to increase the rates of TB deaths could rise dramatically. On a day to day basis at the moment COVID is a bigger concern however I would say it is less TB and more antibiotic resistance in general that is the really scary thing, a huge part of modern medicine is only possible due to cheap and effective antibiotics, surgery in general would become far more risky, heck any cut would become more risky.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tuberculosis
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/bcg-tuberculosis-tb-vaccine/

 

[hoppy hannis]

If you look at YouGov or any of the polling sites, there's been lots of research on this, and the British public are very in favour of restrictions on the unvaccinated and stronger protective measures such as covid passports etc. It's about a 70/30 split in general. We just have a very vocal minority with a disproportionate level of representation in government stopping further measures

 

[Shirley Bassett]

My Father in Law has recently been hospitalised with his COPD, which is normal for him during the winter time. He’s in Perth (Scotland) Royal Infirmary on a respiratory ward.

He said yesterday a patient was discharge after being in hospital for over 6 months. He could barely speak coherently, as his disease had affected his voice. He was using a Zimmer frame to walk. He said when he got home he was going to celebrate getting out of hospital by going to bed. He was a long Covid patient and less than 30 years old.

Prior to catching it he was a marathon runner, and as fit as a flea.

 

[alfajerry]

Although the USA has a lower mortality rate than Britain.

Because they have five times the population in forty times the space?

 

[alfajerry]

That's not accurate. You should mention "First World."
And, if you're from the UK or another First World country, can you really be proud of anything but a zero-obesity number? Twenty-five percent of adults that are obese isn't anything to be proud of either.
Also, is the correlation strictly "COVID deaths 50 and under are caused by obesity"? It would follow, then, that the UK (or wherever) is in a similar boat.
But if you're just taking the p*** and were making a thoughtless comment, ignore the above and carry on.
@Clint--did I use the idiom correctly this time?

First World.
Didn't say I was proud of my country's obesity level.
Other than people with pre-existing health problems, age is main death driver, obesity second.
Not sure why you thought it was thoughtless or taking the ****.

 

[DavidDetroit]

Not sure why you thought it was thoughtless or taking the ****.

I guess because it was inaccurate or seemed flippant since the post lacked any supporting info.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

GPs in England can defer some of the services they provide to patients to allow them to deliver Covid booster jabs instead, NHS chiefs have said.
Practices can postpone minor surgery and routine health checks for over-75s and new patients until 31 March.
It comes after the PM said all adults in England would be offered boosters by the end of January in response to the emergence of the Omicron variant.
A further 75 Omicron cases were confirmed in England on Friday.
The latest cases take the total for England to 104 and for the UK as a whole to 134 - including the first confirmed case in Wales.

• First data points to Omicron re-infection risk
• Can the NHS boost the booster programme?
• How worrying is the new Covid variant?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59528615

 

[MrRook]

The British way has in recent times tended strongly towards achieving a consensus by persuasion rather than by force. Nobody likes being told what to do, even if/when they are either misguided or wrong. I sincerely hope that the dissenters in this country can be persuaded to get themselves and their families vaccinated at the earliest opportunity.

Denying these people treatment in our society is inhumane (even if they have been stupid).

Any antivaxxer who gets ill from covid should be treated, but they should have to pay out of pocket for the treatment.

 

[Hop_it]

Any antivaxxer who gets ill from covid should be treated, but they should have to pay out of pocket for the treatment.

Are you saying this based on a clear understanding of how the healthcare system in the UK is funded?

The NHS offers free medical care for all that need it without bias. It has its faults, but it works for everybody whatever your politics, whatever your religion, and whatever your beliefs . . . . no matter how unpalatable/misguided/stupid they may be.

 

[MrRook]

Are you saying this based on a clear understanding of how the healthcare system in the UK is funded?

The NHS offers free medical care for all that need it without bias. It has its faults, but it works for everybody whatever your politics, whatever your religion, and whatever your beliefs . . . . no matter how unpalatable/misguided/stupid they may be.

My bad, I didn't take into account that difference.