Covid - Plan B & Omicron

[Hoppopotamus]

Keeping windows open and reducing temperature is likely to increase the incidents of head and chest colds.

Just the sort of thing you want to help fight off a respiratory illness.

Also I think we should introduce the mandatory wearing of insulating hats when outdoors or in public places*. I know some selfish people say they don't want to do this because they "don't like wearing hats" but I think it's kind of shocking how little is too much to ask of some people!

In a survey 100% of people who agree with me think this is a good idea - and by anybodies standard 100% is an impressive statistic.

 

[Leon103]

Keeping windows open and reducing temperature is likely to increase the incidents of head and chest colds.

Just the sort of thing you want to help fight off a respiratory illness.

Also I think we should introduce the mandatory wearing of insulating hats when outdoors or in public places*. I know some selfish people say they don't want to do this because they "don't like wearing hats" but I think it's kind of shocking how little is too much to ask of some people!

In a survey 100% of people who agree with me think this is a good idea - and by anybodies standard 100% is an impressive statistic.

And thermal socks and long johns

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Everything coming out of SA says that this new variant gives milder symptoms. Perhaps it would be better if we let it spread before it mutates again.

It's far more likely to mutate if more people have it, there's a bigger population of virus. And you don't want to use omicron as a starting point for your mutations, given some of its apparent characteristics wrt immune escape etc.

How many people have died of the new variant?

Too soon to tell - the genetics suggests it only arose in mid October, and so far it's mostly infected the young, who are less likely to die of Covid anyway. Botswana and South Africa did a remarkable job in alerting the world to omicron so quickly, but it means that we know less about the epidemiology than eg when alpha ("Kent") was announced in December having been circulating at quite a high prevalence for three months.

People are desperate to have a quick take, when these things just take time - anyone who claims to be able to say anything definite about the epidemiology of omicron at this stage is just looking for media attention, real epidemiologists will only talk about "coulds" and "maybes" at this stage.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Haven't heard of any outbreaks in pubs and clubs for a number of months, saying that I haven't heard of any in shops either.

It all seems to be linked to younger children and then into their families

Largely true - it's almost like vaccines work, which is why omicron is worrying, there's apparently been a case of transmission between two cardiologists who were both double-jabbed and boosted, going to various conferences including in the UK :


And 10% of cases in the epicentre of omicron in South Africa are in the under 2's :
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-up-10-of-hospital-cases-in-omicron-epicenter
But there's still plenty of transmission going on in restaurants, eg the winner's party for the Melbourne Cup a few weeks ago was a superspreader event that was up to 26 people last time I saw, and here's 11 people at one table in a restaurant getting it :

https://www.9news.com.au/national/m...covid-19/04697462-e53f-4587-8aa3-a793af9a38fb
This suggests that something akin to heart failure is happening in the muscles of long Covid patients :
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2021/11/19/heart-failure-muscles-long-covid-chronic-fatigue/
This is kinda cute, using chewing gum that includes transgenic lettuce that expresses lots of the ACE-2 target of the virus to trap the virus, reducing transmission via the mouth :
https://www.cell.com/molecular-therapy-family/molecular-therapy/fulltext/S1525-0016(21)00579-7

 

[Leon103]

Largely true - it's almost like vaccines work, which is why omicron is worrying, there's apparently been a case of transmission between two cardiologists who were both double-jabbed and boosted, going to various conferences including in the UK :


And 10% of cases in the epicentre of omicron in South Africa are in the under 2's :
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-up-10-of-hospital-cases-in-omicron-epicenter
But there's still plenty of transmission going on in restaurants, eg the winner's party for the Melbourne Cup a few weeks ago was a superspreader event that was up to 26 people last time I saw, and here's 11 people at one table in a restaurant getting it :

https://www.9news.com.au/national/m...covid-19/04697462-e53f-4587-8aa3-a793af9a38fb
This suggests that something akin to heart failure is happening in the muscles of long Covid patients :
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2021/11/19/heart-failure-muscles-long-covid-chronic-fatigue/
This is kinda cute, using chewing gum that includes transgenic lettuce that expresses lots of the ACE-2 target of the virus to trap the virus, reducing transmission via the mouth :
https://www.cell.com/molecular-therapy-family/molecular-therapy/fulltext/S1525-0016(21)00579-7

Aren't we hearing about people with 3 jabs catching the Delta variant? As long as the symptoms are mild and less strain on the NHS then it is no different to where we are now. If Omicron is more dominant then it could eradicate Delta which is better for us/NHS

 

[TonyT]

People have gotten numb here which is ironic since Michigan is getting spanked (again). Our lovely conservative brothers and sisters insist upon refusing to be part of the solution and have created a sub-group of "You can't tell me what to do even if it's logical!"
I'd buy the anti-vax argument from folks who refuse all vaccines, but no one else. The vaccine test-group is in the tens of millions and the shots have been proven safe and effective.
What happened to those Americans who were proud that 45 backed the vaccines and was vaccinated himself?

“You can’t tell me what to do even if it’s logical” is disease that’s been present in the UK for many years. After 30 years police service, it’s something that I’ve come across many times!

 

[franana]

The insane part to me is that if there really was some sort of mass issue with a vaccine that's been administered 7,810,000,000 times I feel like we would have heard about it by now

 

[DavidDetroit]

disease that’s been present in the UK for many years. After 30 years police service, it’s something that I’ve come across many times!

That's a long time to put up with front-line crazy. It's an odd, frustrating behavior in that they would rather be "right" than correct, if you get my meaning.
I'm glad it's not just us though (misery loves company).

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Aren't we hearing about people with 3 jabs catching the Delta variant? As long as the symptoms are mild and less strain on the NHS then it is no different to where we are now.

We don't know that the symptoms are mild - it will take a couple of weeks before we really can assess that properly. In the meantime, better safe than sorry.

The trouble is, even quite small differences get really big when you're talking about exponential growth. Would you be relaxed if say it hospitalised people at half the rate of delta, but was 10% more transmissible thanks to slightly breaking immunity?

If it cycles in a week then within 3 months you'll have 3.45x as many cases, and so you'll have almost twice as many people in hospital even though it is "milder" (and as yet we don't know that it is milder).

 

[Leon103]

We don't know that the symptoms are mild - it will take a couple of weeks before we really can assess that properly. In the meantime, better safe than sorry.

The trouble is, even quite small differences get really big when you're talking about exponential growth. Would you be relaxed if say it hospitalised people at half the rate of delta, but was 10% more transmissible thanks to slightly breaking immunity?

If it cycles in a week then within 3 months you'll have 3.45x as many cases, and so you'll have almost twice as many people in hospital even though it is "milder" (and as yet we don't know that it is milder).

Yes I would. I like a gamble

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yes I would. I like a gamble

You'd gamble the lives of babies on a hunch? Dunning-Kruger in action once again, it's a good job you're not in charge of anything important.

 

[Leon103]

You'd gamble the lives of babies on a hunch? Dunning-Kruger in action once again, it's a good job you're not in charge of anything important.

Life is one big gamble, if you don't take risks now and again you spend the rest of you life talking **** on brewing forums

 

[DavidDetroit]

Just to reiterate, if you live on a hypothetical island where your actions can't and don't negatively affect others, you can do what you like. Only in that instance are the RW conservative's views on society/freedom logical or reasonable.
Barring that hypothetical scenario, the conservative's logic breaks down; we all have to make compromises, be less selfish, help others. It's a society.
Some don't like to do that.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Life is one big gamble, if you don't take risks now and again you spend the rest of you life talking **** on brewing forums

**** = Beer?

Its a bit like the end of "Have i got news for you"

.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Back on topic -

5 million people in the U.K who could by now have had the first jab still haven't had it.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

As of 20 November, the US had seen 51,424 deaths with Covid of people under 50. Still only 1 in 15 of the total, but it's a staggering number :

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku

 

[Leon103]

Back on topic -

5 million people in the U.K who could by now have had the first jab still haven't had it.

Perhaps why the reasons why the government want to cause panic.

 

[obscure]

Sorry wrong thread

 

[Northern_Brewer]

As long as the symptoms are mild and less strain on the NHS then it is no different to where we are now.

Hospitalisations are up nearly 5-fold in Gauteng in the last two weeks, from 136 to 647 :

 

[JockyBrewer]

Just to reiterate, if you live on a hypothetical island where your actions can't and don't negatively affect others, you can do what you like. Only in that instance are the RW conservative's views on society/freedom logical or reasonable.
Barring that hypothetical scenario, the conservative's logic breaks down; we all have to make compromises, be less selfish, help others. It's a society.
Some don't like to do that.

Indeed. If you want to live in a society and benefit from that society, you have to abide by the rules that are decided by the majority of that society. Even the ones you dislike.