Corny keg questions

[BackToBasics]

Hi,

Apologies if these questions have been answered elsewhere. I have looked but couldn't find anything.

I'm thinking of getting a couple but have a few practical concerns.

Where do you get your gas from and what do you get? I had assumed it was just co2 but a lot of suppliers offer a mix of co2 and nitrogen sold as beer gas. If anyone is able to suggest somewhere local that would be a great help. I'm in the High Peak near the Cheshire border.

How long does the gas last? I'm assuming it's best to have two bottles and have one in use and one as backup?

I'd ultimately be looking converting a fridge to hold the kegs and have proper taps but at first I'd just keep them in the porch (tends to be quite cool in there). Would this be a problem in terms of forced carbonation and serving?

 

[Banbeer]

I've just started using cornies about a month and a half now and got my C02 (food grade) tank from Hobbyweld, they're nationwide. They only do one size of tank, a 6.35Kg and at 850mm isn't small and won't fit into an undercounter fridge. I'm not sure how long it will last as I burst carb my kegs but it's lasted since the end of April and I always have 2 kegs on the go. Pricewise you pay a £65 refundable deposit and £35 to fill it (not the cheapest and you wouldn't want 2) you can look for secondhand tanks online but you might struggle to get them filled by a reputable company, no problem force carbing but the colder the better as the C02 absorbs better at low temps, if it's warm you will be using more C02 to carb the same amount. Take a look at the carbing chart on brewers friend.

 

[Leon103]

I get straight up co2. Sold by my local coal man for £24 for a 6.35kg bottle this should last me well over a year.

 

[BackToBasics]

Thanks. Hadn't thought of checking coal men.

Sounds as though a single bottle would be enough to see me for a good while.

 

[Andyroo Brew]

New to the site but have learnt so much after trying home brew again. Went to a corny to do a lager and really impressed. Got my gas via Adams gas (GMF is a stockist in Wales) £55 deposit and 35 fir gas. Will last a few kegs I suspect.....

 

[Edison]

I’ve recently upgraded to a 6.35kg cylinder, my previous 3.15kg cylinder would last nearly 12 months (about 12x 19l corney kegs) dispensing from 3, most going into a modified corney as a bright tank first and all the purging, cleaning and pressure transfers. A 6.35kg tank should last you close to 2 years with 2 kegs depending on how much you brew (and you don’t have any leaks!).

 

[Andyroo Brew]

It’s a good job CO2 doesn’t go off!!

 

[Andyroo Brew]

Well my estimation of gas lasting 2 years was well off... Tried to pull a beer off my corny and had no pressure. After tracing back noticed that the 6.35kg cylinder was empty and double checked it by weighing it. Only used for a month and one 19L keg!!! Puzzled as to the loss as soapy watered all posts, lid and fittings and no bubbles when brew kegged a month ago. I’m suspicious about the regulator (taprite 3740) as it was always reading zero for supply Gauge but no issue with the regulator pressure. Any thoughts as I can’t understand.

 

[Leon103]

Well my estimation of gas lasting 2 years was well off... Tried to pull a beer off my corny and had no pressure. After tracing back noticed that the 6.35kg cylinder was empty and double checked it by weighing it. Only used for a month and one 19L keg!!! Puzzled as to the loss as soapy watered all posts, lid and fittings and no bubbles when brew kegged a month ago. I’m suspicious about the regulator (taprite 3740) as it was always reading zero for supply Gauge but no issue with the regulator pressure. Any thoughts as I can’t understand.

Sounds like you have a leak.

 

[Andyroo Brew]

Definitely! Just can’t figure out where. I did leave the cylinder valve on after carbonation as it didn’t appear to drop pressure overnight when I **** it off to check.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

I saw on here that it's important to make sure the tank itself is fully opened to prevent leakage out of the actual on/off tap itself. Not sure if your leak test included that part as I know I'd be focusing on the regulator, gas line etc

 

[Andyroo Brew]

Interesting as I only had it partially open probably a quarter open. I work with medical gases so not a novice with cylinders but completely puzzled. Have to wait a week to find the problem so my supplier tells me!

 

[AnimatedGIF]

Someone even posted a link to a helpful diagram explaining why to open it fully, as well as a helpful explanation. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Edison]

Definitely a leak somewhere, but I would be suspicious of the regulator if the tank level gauge showed zero from the start. Unless the tank was empty in the first place, did you weigh it at the start? I do now turn my tank valve on fully after reading about it here, but prior to that I only ever opened it quarter of a turn and I’m not aware of losing gas this way in five years and four tanks!
John guest connectors can leak at the tube end if the tube is strained off to one side and the o ring on the threaded side can leak if not tightened enough (but not overtight).

 

[Drunkula]

How long does the gas last?

To force carb and serve a 19 litre keg to 2.3 volumes of co2 a 6.35kg bottle will do it 45 times. That's with no leaks.

You use about 140g a keg. 54g for the force carb, 86g for serving.

If you get your refill for £19 that's 43p a keg.

And if you think ok, I'll prime the keg with sugar instead of force carbing that's 109g of sugar, about 7p vs 16p of gas and you've now got sediment in the keg so the first pint will be gunk. Oh, and a few weeks extra waiting for 9p - woohoo!

 

[Drunkula]

I saw on here that it's important to make sure the tank itself is fully opened to prevent leakage out of the actual on/off tap itself.

What did they say? That you've really got to crank open the knob on top of the co2 bottle all the way? That is absolute crap.

 

[BackToBasics]

To force carb and serve a 19 litre keg to 2.3 volumes of co2 a 6.35kg bottle will do it 45 times. That's with no leaks.

You use about 140g a keg. 54g for the force carb, 86g for serving.

If you get your refill for £19 that's 43p a keg.

And if you think ok, I'll prime the keg with sugar instead of force carbing that's 109g of sugar, about 7p vs 16p of gas and you've now got sediment in the keg so the first pint will be gunk. Oh, and a few weeks extra waiting for 9p - woohoo!

Cheers, really helpful info. I do like to be able to put hard figures to things where possible.

Everyone here seems to state bottle size in kg but the supplier I got mine from works in litres. I ended up with a 10l bottle which I think is the same as 6.35kg based on pictures people have posted but I'm assuming that's empty weight as mine certainly felt a lot heavier carrying it back to the car.

Had my IPA force carbing for a week now. Used 15 PSI for this and have now turned it down to 5 PSI for serving. Had a couple of glasses to sample. Carbonation level was good but I think I'll increase the temp a few degrees as 4C was a little too cold for an IPA for me. All in all, I'm very pleased with my corny setup - much less faff than bottles. Already got a second keg ready for my next brew. I think 2 kegs for more heavily carbonated beers and a pressure barrel for porters/stouts should do me for a little while.

 

[Edison]

Some great maths there @Drunkula

My tank always shows just above red on the tank pressure and only drops when the tank is very nearly empty (not much notice).

Just checked and the tare weight of my new (2018) 6.35kg tank is 11.4kg. This is the weight of the empty tank including the top valve and carrying handle. It is also stamped with 10.4kg and 8.7L which I assume is the weight and capacity of the bare cylinder.

I've never seen CO2 sold as volume rather than weight before. It doesn't look like a liquid dispense (dip tube) tank though, which is good (all gas side equipment would likely freeze up if it was).

Check all your weights with scales when you get a new tank. My supplier puts my new tank on the scales in front of me when I buy it. It should weigh at least the tare weight plus the gas weight (11.4+6.35) and with CO2 i think you should be able to hear liquid sloshing in the tank. But if it is definitely a full tank and your regulator is showing empty you have a faulty gauge on your regulator, be very suspicious of it! Hope this is helpful.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

What did they say? That you've really got to crank open the knob on top of the co2 bottle all the way? That is absolute crap.

Yes, that's what they said. I really wish I could find it now, because to ask you to explain why it is "absolute crap" without you being able to refer to it would be a little unfair on you @Drunkula .

I did find this PDF which states to fully open, but with no explanation: https://anfab.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/copy_of_dos_and_donts_with_co2_cylinders_leaflet.pdf

 

[stan.distortion]

Opening the tap fully one of those things that's always stated in the instructions but rarely happens in practice (like changing brake fluid or gear oil in cars, should be done every few years but I've never seen it happen). Don't open it enough and it will cause issues but the flow rate is so low you'd probably have to put some effort into opening it so little, one turn would be plenty.

Does anyone use an accumulation tank inline, a soda stream bottle for example that can hold enough gas to allow for absorption and some pouring with the main bottle turned off? Seems like something that could help prevent the whole bottle being drained when there's a leak.