Conditioning/Ageing beer, Saison in particular

[Zephyr259]

Hi folk, I'm thinking of doing a saison project next year and brewing the 4 seasonal saison recipes from "a saison for every season" by Drew Beecham. They are all in the 8% and over range which makes me think they'd need a bit of time to mellow but the spring and summer ones are fairly hoppy which implies they should be drunk fresher. The only saison I've brewed thus far was just over 6% and was nice after 3-4 weeks in the bottle, the hops were fresh and the yeast was fruity, after 4 - 6 months the hops faded and the yeast went spicy, still delicious but a very different beer.

What do people think? I'm kinda expecting the reply of "try a few young and drink when they seem good, then age a few" but I'm just curious if people have any experience with saisons in particular so I can get an idea of lead time so I don't end up drinking them a season late (the things we brewers worry about).

Thanks

 

[Dutto]

I never brew anything with such a high ABV (apart from Barley Wine) but I thoroughly approve of your "try it and see" approach.

With most brews it comes "perfect" as you get down to the last bottle!

 

[geigercntr]

I've only a sample size of 2 brews, but for what its worth, both saisons I've made (an 8 & a 6%) really benefitted from prolonged aging.

The 8% in particular went from "the worst thing that any human has ever produced" after about a month in the bottle, to "my god, I'm opening a brewery" after about 9 months

 

[strange-steve]

I have found with my saisons that they don't need a lot of aging to come good, I would say they were peaking at around 2 or 3 months, I usually go for about 7% abv.
A couple of things that might make a difference, I don't go crazy with ramping the temperature up. I know saison can ferment nice and warm but I generally don't go over 23° which I think gives a nice clean phenolic flavour (my go to saison yeast is Wyeast 3711). Another thing is bulk aging, I will often keep my saison in the FV for about 6 weeks, including a week or 2 at >10° before bottling. I think this speeds up the conditioning.

 

[Zephyr259]

Thanks for the thoughts folks, I should probably share that I'll be using Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale like my first saison.

I've only a sample size of 2 brews, but for what its worth, both saisons I've made (an 8 & a 6%) really benefitted from prolonged aging.

The 8% in particular went from "the worst thing that any human has ever produced" after about a month in the bottle, to "my god, I'm opening a brewery" after about 9 months

What was so wrong with the 8% beer when young? My barleywine was a bit of a hot mess young but after 9 months in a carboy ageing is really smooth. Would have probably smoothed out sooner if I'd started the fermentation cooler.

I have found with my saisons that they don't need a lot of aging to come good, I would say they were peaking at around 2 or 3 months, I usually go for about 7% abv.
A couple of things that might make a difference, I don't go crazy with ramping the temperature up. I know saison can ferment nice and warm but I generally don't go over 23° which I think gives a nice clean phenolic flavour (my go to saison yeast is Wyeast 3711). Another thing is bulk aging, I will often keep my saison in the FV for about 6 weeks, including a week or 2 at >10° before bottling. I think this speeds up the conditioning.

I'm with you on the temps Steve, pitch low then ramp up to low-mid 20s, folks seems to like doing the crazy temps with the dupont strain that stalls but the one I'm using doesn't seem to have that issue. My first saison was pitched at 19c and ramped to 24c over the first week. I'm assuming your 2 - 3 month time frame include the 6 weeks in the FV? That's not too much more than I already do since with my rota most of my brews get close to a month in the FV with the last 7 - 10 days cold crashing. I guess the beer still carb's fine after 6 weeks in primary?

 

[geigercntr]

Thanks for the thoughts folks, I should probably share that I'll be using Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale like my first saison.


What was so wrong with the 8% beer when young? My barleywine was a bit of a hot mess young but after 9 months in a carboy ageing is really smooth. Would have probably smoothed out sooner if I'd started the fermentation cooler.

I think you nailed it with Hot Mess to be honest! Just had all the 'too young' off flavours. Really improved after a while in the bottle.

Used the MJ French Saison yeast

 

[Zephyr259]

I think you nailed it with Hot Mess to be honest! Just had all the 'too young' off flavours. Really improved after a while in the bottle.

Used the MJ French Saison yeast

Oh dear, at least it got there though.

 

[strange-steve]

I'm assuming your 2 - 3 month time frame include the 6 weeks in the FV? That's not too much more than I already do since with my rota most of my brews get close to a month in the FV with the last 7 - 10 days cold crashing. I guess the beer still carb's fine after 6 weeks in primary?

No I think that was 2-3 months in the bottle, although it's perfectly drinkable before that.
Yeah the beer still carbed up without any problems.

 

[Zephyr259]

No I think that was 2-3 months in the bottle, although it's perfectly drinkable before that.
Yeah the beer still carbed up without any problems.

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. I'll probably brew these a season ahead so they're good for the intended one. Thanks for sharing your experiences folks.

 

[Zephyr259]

Bit of an update, my tripel karmeliet clone got the wyeast 3726 saison strain and it went to town and fermented from 1.070 to 1.002 for 9% when I was expecting 8%. It got almost 4 weeks in the fermenter due to my shifts then bottled. Brewed on 22nd December and it's good now. Had one a 10 days ago and it was odd cause it was quite hoppy, yeast and hops rebalanced in the 2nd bottle and it was really smooth. Should still improve with some more age I guess.