Climate change.

[Clarence]

I, too, have nothing more to say than has already been said.

Well, not for the moment, anyway. You can't keep a big gob down! shut!

 

[jof]

I've said before, we don't need to save the Earth, we need to save the humans.

The planet will sort itself out & life will continue to evolve long after we have driven ourselves to extinction.

 

[hoppyscotty]

We used to laugh at these people and ridicule them rather than take them seriously:-

Looks like Joseph Goebbles famous saying has ultimately come to pass...

I would love to see the data or evidence that even sniffs at the possibility of an impending extinction or demise of the human race!! It's an extraordinary claim considering life is better now for so many humans than ever. More people being pulled out of poverty at a rate never seen before. Moving from 98% of the worlds population living in abject poverty to less than 10% with over 50% of the global population being 'middle class in little more than 100 years despite the global population quadrupling and two catastrophic world wars. People living longer than ever before, with more diseases able to be treated than ever before....people are richer than before, so rich that the meaning of poverty today is very different to what it has meant in the past.

Clearly the mainstream media does a great job at only reporting the negative stuff without any context or balancing it out with the positive stuff that is happening. Of course there are still many problems to solve around the world and many people still living in terrible circumstances and conditions, but its alot less that it has ever been and by some significant margin.

You can choose to be pessimistic about things and moan about it...but it is a choice.

 

[Rugby Fan.]

Climate change thread

 

[Clarence]

Climate change thread

It's not open for further replies.

That's better. Although "and other stuff" means nobody can really be off topic, can they?

 

[Druss]

I've said before, we don't need to save the Earth, we need to save the humans.

The planet will sort itself out & life will continue to evolve long after we have driven ourselves to extinction.

Your point here is fascinating, almost prophetic and also a little contradictory, well, in theory at least (unless I'm massively missing the point, which happens from time to time).

The earth produced abundant and diverse life for hundreds of millions of years before humans popped up, when we hear the doomsayers banging on about the apocalyptic dread that is 'climate change' what the crux of the issue is, the earth may (at some point) become inhospitable for humans.

Now, I ask you, is this such a terrible thing?

I personally don't believe for a moment that human activity has altered the overall climate of the entire planet, nor can it, but that's besides the point. The world and everything in it would be so much better off without humans.

Sounds gloomy, I know, but imagine rolling fields, lush forests, abundant wildlife...no farms, professional hunters, industry, metal and wheels.

Sounds like a paradise eh?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Sounds like a paradise eh?

That depends on what wipes us out!

 

[Jim Brewster]

Global Boiling now apparently

 

[Clarence]

Global Boiling now apparently

But, for how long; 90, 60 or 30 minutes?

 

[Cwrw666]

But, for how long; 90, 60 or 30 minutes?

We've just had a 30 minute boil and it's plenty long enough. Looking forward to chilling in the next few days...

 

[Clarence]

We've just had a 30 minute boil and it's plenty long enough. Looking forward to chilling in the next few days...

 

[dad_of_jon]

put another log on the fire to warm up...

oh hang on wood burners were banned in the 21st century...

 

[chthon]

I personally don't believe for a moment that human activity has altered the overall climate of the entire planet, nor can it, but that's besides the point.

It is not a question of belief, because that lays in the realm of religion, and what religions have misdone in the name of belief boggles the mind once you start to investigate this.

No, it is a matter of facts, and the facts start with the discovery by Joseph Fourier (discoverer of the Fourier transform, which plays a really big role in electronics, physicist, mostly in heat transfer) discovered that Earth was warmer than it should be in 1820. Around 1860 the heat absorbing properties of carbon dioxide were discovered, which explained this phenomenon.

To be able to disprove the influence of carbon dioxide, you will have to disprove the amounts of carbon dioxide measured in the atmosphere. Since the atmosphere is a known quantity, and it is possible by measurement to determine the amount of CO2 per cubic m, it is possible to determine the total amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. The heat capacity of CO2 is known, so calculating the total heat trapped, and thus the energy, by CO2 can also be calculated.

The atmosphere is a non-linear system. When more energy is supplied to a non-linear system, this exhibits more peaks and troughs, while the average energy level will increase. Thus, you see more and longer heat waves, but also sometimes bigger temperature decreases, snow storms in place never seen before, the flooding of 2/3 of Pakistan, etc....

 

[chthon]

That depends on what wipes us out!

 

[Druss]

It is not a question of belief, because that lays in the realm of religion, and what religions have misdone in the name of belief boggles the mind once you start to investigate this.

Ah but that's precisely what I believe is going on.

The scaremongering regarding 'climate change' has become nothing more than a business model.

In much the same way that churches throughout history have capitalised on things like bountiful harvests (god is happy, if you want to keep him that way, make a hefty donation to the church) and poor harvests (god is angry, if you want to make him happy, make a hefty donation to the church).

You only need to look at the whole ULEZ fiasco, obviously Sadiq Kahn isn't as subtle with his unwarranted thievery as others, but the whole "carbon emissions are knackering us, but if you chuck some cash my way then it's fine if you continue to pollute". Even the scientists he commissioned to prove his point basically told him that it's all nonsense.

Yes, the world is getting warmer, but it's done so for billions of years and will continue to do so regardless of human activity. If we were approaching another ice age we'd be told of the absolute necessity to keep our radiators on 24/7, not because it would line the pockets of the energy companies and kick up a nice big pay check to the government, but because it's the 'right thing to do'.

Now, I could be wrong, and if I find myself under ten feet of water in my living room then I'll concede the point. But I remember in the 80's, 90's and 00's being told in no uncertain terms that some global catastrophe or other was about to wipe us all out...unless of course we piled our hard earned into a 'solution' devised by already highly paid individuals who certainly weren't trying to pull the wool over our eyes...

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Now, I could be wrong, and if I find myself under ten feet of water in my living room then I'll concede the point.

Our town yesterday after torrential rain fall flooded huge areas and many houses, fortunately it didn't get into ours but it came close.

Our

 

[pilgrimhudd]

If there was a 'global boiling' event there should be no water there!!!

 

[Clarence]

The scaremongering regarding 'climate change' has become nothing more than a business model.

No it hasn't. Who, specifically, gains from this? Name some names. Out of all the billions supposedly being made, you should be able to name a few who are making a profit.

You only need to look at the whole ULEZ fiasco,

ULEZ isn't a fiasco. It's unpopular, but it isn't a fiasco.
ULEZ is about improving the quality of the air Londoners breath. It's not especially about climate change.

Even the scientists he commissioned to prove his point basically told him that it's all nonsense.

No they haven't.

Yes, the world is getting warmer, but it's done so for billions of years

The world is getting warmer. It hasn't been getting warmer for billions of years.

It doesn't help your case when you talk complete nonsense. There are arguments you could make, but you appear to have missed them by a mile.

Look at all the kerfuffle we've had over barn eggs and free range chickens. And people are still banging on about climate change!
OK. I'm taking a urine sample now!

Now, I could be wrong,

Gracious of you to concede that.

 

[Druss]

name a few who are making a profit.

Every car company banging on about their new 'all electric' models. Supposedly better for the environment (although the heavy metals in the batteries do a load of significant damage to the eco systems that they're mined from) but in reality just the latest cash cow. I think Elon Musk might be making a fair bit.

Any and every two bit hack 'scientist' who desperately needs to justify their exorbitant wage by telling us all that cow gas is going to burn away our protection from the sun within a matter of weeks.

Every journalist who takes part in whipping up a frenzy in the herd of wooly minded folks who will go along with any old story about how they're doomed unless they pay out for x, y, or z.

No they haven't.

This is from the Mail I think, basically makes my point for me:

"Sadiq Kahn's office has been accused of trying to 'silence' scientists over publishing research that showed his ultra-low emissions zone (Ulez) policy had 'insignificant' effect on pollution, as protestors brought traffic to a standstill on Saturday to fight against expansion of the scheme.

The claims were made following a series of emails between Shirley Rodrigues, the London Mayor's deputy for environment and energy and Professor Frank Kelly, director of Imperial's Environmental Research Group, which has received £800,000 of funding from the London Mayor's office since 2021.

In the emails, seen by The Telegraph, Ms Rodrigues said she was disappointed that Imperial College had published a study by the Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering that showed Ulez cut nitrogen dioxide by less than three per cent and had achieved an insignificant impact on ozone and particulate matter"

The world is getting warmer. It hasn't been getting warmer for billions of years.

That was my fault for not making myself clearer I suppose, I meant that the earth has gone through natural cycles of global warming and cooling for billions of years. Nothing to do with humans.

I've heard plenty of arguments from both sides and thus far I just don't buy it, I'm not a 'denier' per se, just a sceptic.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

MYTH 1. THE EARTH’S CLIMATE HAS ALWAYS CHANGED​

Over the course of the Earth’s 4.5-billion-year history, the climate has changed a lot. This is true. But the rapid warming we’re seeing now can't be explained by natural cycles of warming and cooling. The kind of changes that would normally happen over hundreds of thousands of years are happening in decades.
Global temperatures are now at their highest since records began. In fact, 17 of the 18 warmest years on record have all taken place since 2001.
This much faster warming corresponds with levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which have been increasing since the industrial revolution. So, when people talk about climate change today, they mean anthropogenic (man-made) climate change. This is the warming of Earth’s average temperature as a result of human activity, such as burning coal, oil and gas to produce energy to fuel our homes and transport and cutting down trees to produce the food we eat.

MYTH 2. PLANTS NEED CARBON DIOXIDE​

Plants do need carbon dioxide (CO2) to live. Plants and forests remove and store away huge amounts of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere each year. But the problem is, there’s only so much carbon dioxide they can absorb and this amount is getting less, as more and more forests are cut down across the world, largely to produce our food.
Let’s be clear, CO2 itself does not cause problems. It's part of the natural global ecosystem. The problem is the quantity of CO2 that’s being produced by us as humans; there hasn’t been this level of CO2 in the atmosphere for 800,000 years.

MYTH 3. GLOBAL WARMING ISN'T REAL AS IT'S STILL COLD​

Global warming is causing the Earth’s average surface temperature to increase. This is not only making heatwaves and droughts more likely but it’s also causing changes to our natural climate systems. These changes are making extreme weather events more likely and more severe. For example, hurricanes and storms are becoming more intense, moving slower and taking longer to die down.
Because of where we are, the UK & Ireland are likely to get more rain and wind as a result of climate change while New York will see more snow.

MYTH 4. CLIMATE CHANGE IS A FUTURE PROBLEM​

This is no longer an excuse not to act on climate change and push the burden onto future generations. Last year, the world’s leading climate scientists warned we only have 12 years to limit global warming to a maximum of 1.5C and avoid climate breakdown.
We’re already seeing the devastating effects of climate change on global food supplies, increasing migration, conflict, disease and global instability, and this will only get worse if we don’t act now. Man-made climate change is the biggest environmental crisis of our time. It threatens the future of the planet that we depend on for our survival and we're the last generation that can do something about it.

MYTH 5. RENEWABLE ENERGY IS JUST A MONEY-MAKING SCHEME​

It's a commonly-held belief that renewable energy is expensive, but this simply isn’t true! Solar power and onshore wind are the cheapest ways of generating electricity; meaning the energy they produce is cheaper than using nuclear, gas and fossil fuels.
The cost of renewables has fallen faster than anyone could have predicted. And yet the government are still backing dirty fossil fuels. Did you know the UK has the biggest fossil fuel subsidies in the EU? That’s right, they spend an eye-watering €12bn (£10.5bn) a year supporting dirty fossil fuels.

MYTH 6. POLAR BEAR NUMBERS ARE INCREASING​

This isn’t the case. Climate change is the biggest threat faced by polar bears. The Arctic is warming roughly twice as fast as the rest of the world, causing sea ice to melt earlier and form later each year. This makes it more difficult for female polar bears to get onto land in late autumn to build their dens, and more difficult for them to get out onto the sea ice in spring to feed their cubs. Their main source of prey, seals, are also affected by climate change, as they depend on sea ice to raise their young.
This means that in some parts of the Arctic, polar bears are having to survive with less food than they did previously. Polar bear populations are predicted to decline by 30% by the middle of this century.

MYTH 7. RENEWABLE ENERGY CAN ONLY WORK WHEN IT'S NOT CLOUDY OR WINDY​

Industry is developing new techniques for storing electricity and managing demand at peak times meaning that even if the sun isn't shining or it’s not blowing a gale, it’s still possible to rely on renewable energy sources.
The majority of UK homes get their electricity from the National Grid. When you switch to a clean supplier, they guarantee that for every unit of electricity you take out of the Grid, they’ll put the same amount of clean energy back in, helping to clean up our energy supply.

MYTH 8. ANIMALS WILL ADAPT TO CLIMATE CHANGE​

This one isn't a myth, Darwin got the adaptation part right. But let’s be clear, some plants and animals will adapt but not all.
To survive, plants, animals and birds confronted with climate change have two options: move or adapt. There are several examples of species that have begun to adapt to climate change already.
But increasingly, it's a different story for many. Given the speed of climate change, it’s becoming impossible for many species to adapt quickly enough to keep up with their changing environment. And, as habitats are destroyed by roads, cities and dams, moving becomes increasingly difficult.  For those that can’t move or adapt, the future doesn’t look so positive.

MYTH 9. GETTING RID OF HUMANS WILL FIX THIS​

This, we firmly believe, is wrong. It’s easy to start feeling that we've gone too far already and that the planet won’t be able to support the world’s growing population.
It's WWF's mission to build a world where people and nature thrive together. The technology and systems we need to move to 100% renewable energy by 2045 and use our planet's resources sustainably are already available. What's now needed is for political and business leaders to take bold and urgent action towards using these solutions to address the climate crisis and restore nature.

MYTH 10. CHINA IS THE ONLY COUNTRY RESPONSIBLE FOR CLIMATE CHANGE​

Despite being one of the largest emitters of greenhouse gases, China is currently one of the largest investors in renewables. The increase in investment has been in response to the rapid growth of green business and the need to clean up air pollution in its major cities.
Climate change is a global issue and we all have a responsibility to step up to the climate crisis. Action on it will need serious investment but has the potential to deliver huge benefits for nature and people. We all need to raise our voices and fight for our world!

https://www.wwf.org.uk/updates/here-are-10-myths-about-climate-change