Citra / Simcoe IPA hop schedule

[Hengoedbrewer]

Hi everyone

I am brewing a porter for my next small batch BIAB AG attempt; but I also have ingredients on the way for a Citra / Simcoe based IPA, as I love Citra and have never brewed with Simcoe, so trying to do some planning ahead.

My recipe is loosely based on the GH American IPA so I know the hops go well together. Fermentables 3KG MO. I am looking for a big hop kick and aroma, so have come up with the following schedule, which differs from the original by upping late additions and adding a dry hop. Aiming for a 12L batch into fermenter, 60 min boil, estimated OG 1.055 / FG 1.014. About 5.5 ABV, fermenting with US05 at 18-19c in Inkbird controlled brew fridge.

Hop addition	Leaf / Pellet	Hop AA	Schedule	IBU’s
25g Centennial	Pellet	11 AA	Boil 30 mins	40.6
10g Citra	Pellet	12.8 AA	Boil 5 mins	4.9
10g Simcoe	Pellet	12 AA	Boil 5 mins	4.6
30g Citra	Pellet	12.8 AA	0 mins (hop stand at <80c)	--
30g Simcoe	Pellet	12 AA	0 mins (hop stand at <80c)	--
25g Citra	Pellet	12.8 AA	Dry Hop- 3 days prior to bottling	--
25g Simcoe	Pellet	12 AA	Dry Hop- 3 days prior to bottling	--

Any comments / suggestions welcomed!

 

[Banbeer]

My recipe is loosely based on the GH American IPA so I know the hops go well together.

I Did exactly the same recipe and it was fantastic, I love Simcoe hops and also Citra, I didn't dry hop though, I think I added more hops at 5 min addition. enjoy.

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

I Did exactly the same recipe and it was fantastic, I love Simcoe hops and also Citra, I didn't dry hop though, I think I added more hops at 5 min addition. enjoy.

Thanks mate- I am torn with dry hopping as I want the aroma but I am currently struggling with my AG beers being quite dark after bottle conditioning, I think it's an oxygen issue. Probably more to do with my siphoning than anything but trying to cut down how many times I have to open the FV. What was your hop schedule if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Banbeer]

What was your hop schedule if you don't mind me asking?

I don't make notes anymore, I used to but alas, I'm lazy. I think that I pretty much followed the APA recipe (page 133) and added the exact hops (I usually use a cheaper bittering hop but had none).
29g Citra @60
15g Citra @10
15g Simcoe @10
44g Citra @Flameout (80°)
44g Simcoe @Flameout (80°)
I remember it being quite hoppy even though I didn't dry hop, I tend to only dry hop kits as I prefer to add at flameout with AG.

 

[MmmmCitra]

Spookily my last brew was a Simcoe / Citra Pale Ale and it's turned out lovely.
I do BiaB and it was an 11 lt batch...........I've decided to do away with adding ANY hops during the boil so just added 25g of each at flameout. less than 70c, and then dry hopped with 3 days to go, 40g of each.
I used US04 and it tastes very fruity and smells amazing.

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

I don't make notes anymore, I used to but alas, I'm lazy. I think that I pretty much followed the APA recipe (page 133) and added the exact hops (I usually use a cheaper bittering hop but had none).
29g Citra @60
15g Citra @10
15g Simcoe @10
44g Citra @Flameout (80°)
44g Simcoe @Flameout (80°)
I remember it being quite hoppy even though I didn't dry hop, I tend to only dry hop kits as I prefer to add at flameout with AG.

I did the same as Citra is a waste to me as a bittering hop! Thanks for that- that's the book I have (this will be my first recipe from it!)

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

Spookily my last brew was a Simcoe / Citra Pale Ale and it's turned out lovely.
I do BiaB and it was an 11 lt batch...........I've decided to do away with adding ANY hops during the boil so just added 25g of each at flameout. less than 70c, and then dry hopped with 3 days to go, 40g of each.
I used US04 and it tastes very fruity and smells amazing.

That's good to know thank you- I am still in my infancy as a BIAB brewer, with some frustrating results if I am honest- first attempt decent (Citra IPA attempt, turned out too dark and sweet due to 10% crystal malt but the citra actually came through nicely ), second didn't enjoy it much (oatmeal stout), 3rd attempt I enjoyed other than colour being wrong, I think oxidised a bit (citra-cascade IPA), my latest Galaxy IPA is alright but not really the tropical hit I was looking for- so looking to change it up with a darker beer, then head back to a hoppier one next.

I know everyone's equipment is different but still trying to get my head round water quantities as well. How much do you find you use for an 11Ltr batch? I'll be using a 15L stockpot (no tap) on a portable induction hob so going to go for 9L mash at 65C, with probably 4 ltr sparge, then topping up in the FV to get 12L with bottled water, with hopefully 10L to actually bottle.

 

[MmmmCitra]

I've been brewing for nearly 5 years now and I'm still tweaking things to try and improve.
Here's a few things I've changed, I really only make Pales and IPAs and try to get them as juicy as possible :
Never use Crystal.
Never use bittering hops.
Recently seldom put hops in the boil, if I do just a few with 5 mins to go. Decent amount at flameout with the mash less than 70c for 30 mins.
Big dry hop 3-4 days before bottling.
I've tried a few NEIPA styles, I use to syphon from the fermentor into a secondary bucket before bottling with a wand but even being ultra cautious about splashing I still got oxidation.
I drilled a hole in my fermentor bucket and added a tap, now I bottle straight from that and NO oxidation any more :)
To get 10 / 11 lts at the finish of the boil I boil about 14 lts.
Your figures don't look far out..........

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

I've been brewing for nearly 5 years now and I'm still tweaking things to try and improve.
Here's a few things I've changed, I really only make Pales and IPAs and try to get them as juicy as possible :
Never use Crystal.
Never use bittering hops.
Recently seldom put hops in the boil, if I do just a few with 5 mins to go. Decent amount at flameout with the mash less than 70c for 30 mins.
Big dry hop 3-4 days before bottling.
I've tried a few NEIPA styles, I use to syphon from the fermentor into a secondary bucket before bottling with a wand but even being ultra cautious about splashing I still got oxidation.
I drilled a hole in my fermentor bucket and added a tap, now I bottle straight from that and NO oxidation any more :)
To get 10 / 11 lts at the finish of the boil I boil about 14 lts.
Your figures don't look far out..........

That's all really helpful thank you- especially as the process which you have ditched is what I do and what I think is causing me problems at the moment.

I have a bottling bucket and was thinking of using it as a fermenter to see if that reduces oxidation, then I could tell that my spihoning is a probable issue. The only things putting me off are a) getting too much of the trub into my bottles at the end and b) losing ability to batch prime, which I have always done. Not too concerned about infection as I can take the tap apart to make sure it's clean. How do you alleviate too much trub getting into bottles? I have one of the Home Brew Online buckets with the tap reasonably close to the bottom of the bucket, not batch priming would be a first for me, but if not transferring has helped you with oxidation I'd really be sorely tempted to try it on this brew to see if it helps...(even if I did just buy a brand new 15L fermenter). Do you then use carb drops to prime?

Thanks for your comments so far; it has really given me some pointers on what to try next time!

 

[Banbeer]

How do you alleviate too much trub getting into bottles?

I've just bought a bouncer filter Here so will be using that on my next syphoning.

 

[MmmmCitra]

That's all really helpful thank you- especially as the process which you have ditched is what I do and what I think is causing me problems at the moment.

I have a bottling bucket and was thinking of using it as a fermenter to see if that reduces oxidation, then I could tell that my spihoning is a probable issue. The only things putting me off are a) getting too much of the trub into my bottles at the end and b) losing ability to batch prime, which I have always done. Not too concerned about infection as I can take the tap apart to make sure it's clean. How do you alleviate too much trub getting into bottles? I have one of the Home Brew Online buckets with the tap reasonably close to the bottom of the bucket, not batch priming would be a first for me, but if not transferring has helped you with oxidation I'd really be sorely tempted to try it on this brew to see if it helps...(even if I did just buy a brand new 15L fermenter). Do you then use carb drops to prime?

Thanks for your comments so far; it has really given me some pointers on what to try next time!

 

[An Ankoù]

I've been brewing for nearly 5 years now and I'm still tweaking things to try and improve.

Me too and I started in 1970. If anything I'm even more critical now. Back in the day, it was a case of crossing your fingers and hoping for something drinkable. Anything good was a bonus.

 

[MmmmCitra]

Woooops, that didn't quite work properly................

Anyhow, the siphoning IS the problem, no matter how careful you are. That's why I changed, now the only time any air gets in my bucket is when I add the dry hops and this is never a problem as there is enough Co2 covering the wort.

I have never batch carbonated, I find 1 Coopers carb drop is about right in a 500 ml bottle but recently to reduce the carbonation a bit I just use a level teaspoon of normal white granulated sugar, really depends how fizzy you like your beers.

If you're careful you won't get any trub in your bottles, esp if you cold crash for a day, you might lose a bottle or two by not trying to squeeze that extra bottle from your bucket but it's worth it in my opinion........:)

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

Woooops, that didn't quite work properly................

Anyhow, the siphoning IS the problem, no matter how careful you are. That's why I changed, now the only time any air gets in my bucket is when I add the dry hops and this is never a problem as there is enough Co2 covering the wort.

I have never batch carbonated, I find 1 Coopers carb drop is about right in a 500 ml bottle but recently to reduce the carbonation a bit I just use a level teaspoon of normal white granulated sugar, really depends how fizzy you like your beers.

If you're careful you won't get any trub in your bottles, esp if you cold crash for a day, you might lose a bottle or two by not trying to squeeze that extra bottle from your bucket but it's worth it in my opinion........:)

I really appreciate the answers to my off original topic questions- to be honest the last couple of brews being a disappointment was making me consider if I am ever going to enjoy the beers I make as much as the process of making them and whether I should therefore knock it on the head for a while. I love the process as I say but don't have a lot of time to brew at all, and a lot of hours being put in for not great end products has been a bit disheartening. Knowing a change to my process which I was considering doing anyway- to avoid an oxidation risky wort transfer by fermenting and bottling from one bucket- has helped someone else with issues I am having is great, I will definitely give this a go, excited for my ingredients to arrive now!!

Thank you @Banbeer for your feedback too :)

 

[Banbeer]

Anyhow, the siphoning IS the problem, no matter how careful you are.

I disagree, I add C02 to my corny pre syphon and then purge after and get no oxidation when syphoning. I syphon from a tap.

 

[MmmmCitra]

The only thing I would add is that I really only had oxidation problems when I changed my malt bill to try and match a NEIPA style of beer.
Once I added things like oats and wheat the problems occurred.
You didn't say what grains you were using so if you were only using say Maris Otter and crystal malt you really shouldn't get too many problems with oxidation ???

 

[MmmmCitra]

I disagree, I add C02 to my corny pre syphon and then purge after and get no oxidation when syphoning. I syphon from a tap.

Yes, I've read that works well but I think that's the difference between bottling and kegging.......:)

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

The only thing I would add is that I really only had oxidation problems when I changed my malt bill to try and match a NEIPA style of beer.
Once I added things like oats and wheat the problems occurred.
You didn't say what grains you were using so if you were only using say Maris Otter and crystal malt you really shouldn't get too many problems with oxidation ???

I have tended to use MO and flaked barley in my ipa's and not much else- more grains including oats in the oatmeal stout which ended up horribly thin and too sweet. I think my oxidation problems are likely doing transfer, or possibly splashing when cooling wort (which I do in the sink). Something else I am going to change next time- put the lid on post boil during the cooling / not stir the wort in the pot, could be a splashing issue there. Also going to try squeezing air out of PET bottles during bottling. And yes I have no facility to purge with C02; I always bottle, I have a PB but bottles are easier to manage for me.

 

[Banbeer]

or possibly splashing when cooling wort (which I do in the sink). Something else I am going to change next time- put the lid on post boil during the cooling / not stir the wort in the pot, could be a splashing issue there

This won't cause oxidation as it's only after it's started to ferment that you don't want to add oxygen.

 

[MmmmCitra]

Squeezing air out is a good idea, as is reducing the air space between the beer and the cap.
One other thing, NEVER shake the bottle to ensure the sugar / carb drop is mixed with the beer, no need and that will cause oxidation