Choosing - Brewzilla 35l vs Brauheld Pro 45l vs Brauheld Smart 45l

[peterpiper]

I'm looking for suggestions to help choose between (probably) these systems:
Brewzilla 35l gen4 (£410)
Brauheld Pro 45l (Klarstein £490)
Brauheld Smart 45l (Klarstein £375)

Unless there's any better suggestions, in the same price range.

The brewzilla includes a 13 loop Chiller coil.
Klarstein Chiller 12 cooling coil, listed as "Chiller 9" on their site, (21.5 cm diameter spiral with 18 cooling loops) adds an extra £70.

I'm mostly doing 23l batches, so the Brauheld extra 10l would only help with the occasional big beers. But can manage these, with care, in (friends) Brewzilla 35l (gen3), and guess gen 4 similar.
Did look at Bulldog Master Brewer 30l £585 inc immersion Chiller. Seems very like the Brauheld Pro 35l, but with twin wall construction. I think it's 30l size is too small for me. Shame as I like the twin wall, and getting a chiller complete with push-fit hose fittings.

Brewzilla: The domed bottom of the new gen brewzilla looks a great idea, to allow complete emptying via pump, without any tipping. And brewzilla spares seem widely available.

Brauheld: Don't see spares listed anywhere, and Klarstein seems to list very few spares for any products. Their Facebook page has many complaining of lack of parts / service.
Both Brauleld's: Have anti-burn circulation - optional pump recirculation via 2nd valve near bottom. With brewzilla gen3, this feature might have reduced temperature cycling a bit, but not sure if it's a big plus point. Bazooka screen filter (optional, on pump inlet?) is reported to require a raised inlet level, giving more incomplete emptying.

Brauheld Pro 45l: has pump housed in external box, with inlet coming from hose, with a push connector that goes on drain tap. So you can pump sparge water, by connecting this hose to the sparge vessel (or dipping extended hose in).
Review of (the similar Bulldog Master Brewer), said that the external pump was far superior to (previous Bulldog) internal one.

Brauheld Smart 45l: Has external sight tube. Not sure I'd ever use its smart connectivity (phone app).

 

[LeeH]

Personally I’d get the one with most spares and support.

 

[peterpiper]

That's what I'm thinking.

I've noticed that brewzilla now offer a 'heat exchanger dish', a solid metal disc that sits under the false bottom, and acts as a flow diverter. Mash flow is diverted towards the outside edge of the plate, then all has to run back across the full base area (to the central drain hole). So heats (mash) quicker, and makes the inbuilt temperature sensor respond more rapidly (for reduced overshoots).
That maybe does away with need for Brauleld's 'anti-burn circulation' system, at least during mash.

But not sure how well it will work for boil, guess would need to keep pump running while getting to boil, or it'll just get too hot under the heat exchanger plate.

 

[MashBag]

Personally I’d get the one with most spares and support.

Yup. Spares. Brewzilla.
Try to avoid bonded elements.

I would also focus on the machine not the "extras" added by the marketing team to get you to buy it. Included chiller for instance are normally terrible and you end up buying a proper one anyway.

FYI Twin wall is a fermentation temp control feature, NOT an efficient chiller. Very different.

 

[LeeH]

Do any of the budget units have replaceable elements?

 

[MashBag]

The trouble is.... and you know what's coming Lee... When bonded elements fail they write off the entire machine. It becomes a bucket.

 

[The Baron]

I think everything in the entry level AIO systems are bonded elements so unless you go well up the range it is Hobsons choice.
My element went so I just added a Peco element and use it as a manual system, the pump still works so it does everything it should apart from the automation control. You can even control the mash by plugging the element into a inkbird as used for fridge fermentation control if you require more automation

 

[Rodcx500z]

I have never used my bz 35L in auto mode it's a faff

 

[peterpiper]

Yup. Spares. Brewzilla.
Try to avoid bonded elements.

I would also focus on the machine not the "extras" added by the marketing team to get you to buy it. Included chiller for instance are normally terrible and you end up buying a proper one anyway.

FYI Twin wall is a fermentation temp control feature, NOT an efficient chiller. Very different.

If no spares availabie, might end up worthless.
Not sure what 'bonded elements' are. But guess Brewzilla, and other AIO's, where they don't have an old kettle type sticking out into the wort are bonded.

The twin wall the outer skin, like vacuum flask (but no vacuum), which saves needing an insulating jacket.

 

[peterpiper]

What percentage of failures is down to the bonded element failing? Thinking if element's not repairable, but that's what usually fails, then spares availability not such a factor.
How frequently do these bonded elements fail? Haven't found any reports of this (with BZ 4) just board failures.

Thanks for all the input so far.

 

[BrewKegTap]

Hey there. We can answer that for you.
We've been selling the Brewzilla in the UK for over 5 years now (we were the first to import it and were the only UK sellers for around the first year). Believe me or not but I've never been contacted by a customer with a failed element. There may of course have been failures that we didn't hear about (perhaps after warranty) but I think we would have heard if it was anything more than very rare.
Re boards, there was an issue with the early boards (4-5 years ago) on the USA 110V models but we have had very few fail. And we have spares for everything in case something goes wrong.
OK, advert over, but hope that helped with the facts...
Cheers, Jonny

 

[dcbrookes]

But not sure how well it will work for boil, guess would need to keep pump running while getting to boil, or it'll just get too hot under the heat exchanger plate.

I had some doubts about this when I bought my heat exchanger disk. In fact it works without any problems and I do not use the pump during the heat to boil phase.

 

[MashBag]

The twin wall the outer skin, like vacuum flask (but no vacuum), which saves needing an insulating jacket.

Sorry I misread their usage for the twin wall.
If it is not accessible for temperature control* it will be a hindrance to brewing and I would absolutely avoid.

*two threaded fittings for water flow in & out.

 

[The Baron]

I concur what BKT has said.
I had my AIO for 5 and half a years before one of my bonded elements failed(200 brews) so it had plenty of use and was well out of warranty.
As I have said many times now it is not useless when the elements go as you can still stick in a Peco style element and use it as a manual brewing machine- the pump still works you just have to mash manually but you can still re-circulate your mash and whirlpool.
Some brewers never use the control unit fully and brew in manual mode anyway so virtually the same.
It is possible to also put some control back into it if you hook the Peco style element to a Inkbird to control the mash temp if also require which a lot of brewers may already have.
It could also be a reason to buy a newer upgraded type it's your choice me I am using mine as I have described but will eventually buy another but at the moment I am brewing as I have described

 

[Rodcx500z]

and someone suggested swapping the switches over between the 1900w and the lower wattage one.

Baron did you check this on yours

 

[The Baron]

Yes I did rod it had burnt out on the PCB connections and I put the tester on the element but a very useful bit of info for all AOI to check

 

[JMReina]

I'm looking for suggestions to help choose between (probably) these systems:
Brewzilla 35l gen4 (£410)
Brauheld Pro 45l (Klarstein £490)
Brauheld Smart 45l (Klarstein £375)

Unless there's any better suggestions, in the same price range.

The brewzilla includes a 13 loop Chiller coil.
Klarstein Chiller 12 cooling coil, listed as "Chiller 9" on their site, (21.5 cm diameter spiral with 18 cooling loops) adds an extra £70.

I'm mostly doing 23l batches, so the Brauheld extra 10l would only help with the occasional big beers. But can manage these, with care, in (friends) Brewzilla 35l (gen3), and guess gen 4 similar.
Did look at Bulldog Master Brewer 30l £585 inc immersion Chiller. Seems very like the Brauheld Pro 35l, but with twin wall construction. I think it's 30l size is too small for me. Shame as I like the twin wall, and getting a chiller complete with push-fit hose fittings.

Brewzilla: The domed bottom of the new gen brewzilla looks a great idea, to allow complete emptying via pump, without any tipping. And brewzilla spares seem widely available.

Brauheld: Don't see spares listed anywhere, and Klarstein seems to list very few spares for any products. Their Facebook page has many complaining of lack of parts / service.
Both Brauleld's: Have anti-burn circulation - optional pump recirculation via 2nd valve near bottom. With brewzilla gen3, this feature might have reduced temperature cycling a bit, but not sure if it's a big plus point. Bazooka screen filter (optional, on pump inlet?) is reported to require a raised inlet level, giving more incomplete emptying.

Brauheld Pro 45l: has pump housed in external box, with inlet coming from hose, with a push connector that goes on drain tap. So you can pump sparge water, by connecting this hose to the sparge vessel (or dipping extended hose in).
Review of (the similar Bulldog Master Brewer), said that the external pump was far superior to (previous Bulldog) internal one.

Brauheld Smart 45l: Has external sight tube. Not sure I'd ever use its smart connectivity (phone app).

I bought myself this one: Brauheld Smart 35l as I think they made a mistake on Amazon and put £175 as a price(not available anymore on Amazon). I could let you know how this one is working once arrives and I use it (if you haven't bought any yet)

 

[peterpiper]

I bought myself this one: Brauheld Smart 35l as I think they made a mistake on Amazon and put £175 as a price(not available anymore on Amazon). I could let you know how this one is working once arrives and I use it (if you haven't bought any yet)

Well spotted, sound a good bargain.

Would be interested to see reports of how it performs.
Although I've now decided to go with the BZ35, largely for the spares /accessories available, plus greater cover in forums..

 

[MashBag]

I think you have made a good choice.
IMO a lot of peeps stick with the first machine they buy, so service & spares are important.

 

[BFG.]

I bought myself this one: Brauheld Smart 35l as I think they made a mistake on Amazon and put £175 as a price(not available anymore on Amazon). I could let you know how this one is working once arrives and I use it (if you haven't bought any yet)

Me too. I've cleaned it and managed to download the app and connect via 2.4Ghz wifi but can't get the default programs on the app to control the system yet. Also, can't work out how to get into 'Recipe' mode on the controller. The other models have an 'R' button for Recipe, but this one has a 'Reset' button instead. I've done some manual tests of setting a temp and power and then hitting start and that all seems to work ok. Lots more testing and googling to do..