Chemsan neutralised by tap water?

[Foggy Scruggs]

Hi All

Just did a ph paper test on diluted Chemsan using my tap water, not too cloudy but worryingly - shows a 6

I understand Chemsan is only effective at a ph of 3 or below.

What should I do in future? Change to bottled mineral water? Is my equipment UNsanitary?

My beer is near ready to bottle, my equipment was sanitised without realising this issue with the ph. Is there likely to be a problem?

I had a look in fermenter when adding hops, smells okay looks okay.

Am I being a paranoid noob?

 

[Banbeer]

Never done a PH test on my Chemsan before and used it for about 30 FV's and same amount of corny kegs and not had a problem.

 

[Random Badger]

What does it taste like?





















Joke!

 

[Ezza]

Tesco Ashbeck bottled water works well.

 

[RichardM]

How long have you had the solution made up and did you dilute to the correct amount of chemsan to water? Something sounds wrong if the ph is 6. I use Starsan rather than Chemsan, but that will stay at a ph of three for months using ordinary tap water.

P.S.
I have a spray bottle of water and one of Starsan. I once picked up the wrong one and sanitzied with tap water. Luckily nothing bad happened.

 

[MmmBeer]

Check your water supplier's website for the pH of your tapwater, search for water quality or similar. I know Ashbeck works fine, but you can also add acid to the tapwater used to make up the Chemsan (CRS, Phosphoric, pH Down).

 

[Foggy Scruggs]

How long have you had the solution made up and did you dilute to the correct amount of chemsan to water? Something sounds wrong if the ph is 6. I use Starsan rather than Chemsan, but that will stay at a ph of three for months using ordinary tap water.

P.S.
I have a spray bottle of water and one of Starsan. I once picked up the wrong one and sanitzied with tap water. Luckily nothing bad happened.

seems crazy i know, i cant imagine my tap water being unusual in any way

dilution is correct and batch made and tested withing 5 minutes showing 6ph

tap water is 7.5

when i come to bottle up the brew in a few days i will try Chemsan diluted with bottled water (as others have suggested), will check ph and report back.

 

[DixeySJ]

I've recently been using Chemsan (I acquired it with some second hand kit). I notice it tends to go cloudy and develops a soapy feel after being made up for a while. I just stuck a pH meter in a batch that has been around for a few days and it came out at 3.2, so not too bad I guess (can't be 100% sure the meter is calibrated at that range). On the whole I am not sure I am convinced about 'no rinse' sanitisers - the idea of mixing my beer with the dregs of cleaning solutions (EDIT - sanitising solutions) doesn't really appeal! - but haven't noticed any odd flavours coming through.

But I may go back to my old tried and trusted routine of dilute bleach, thoroughly rinsed, and then a wash of metabisulphate to ensure removal of any chlorine residue. I also like percarbonate which is great for stubborn stains, it just has to be left for long enough to work. Interestingly some manufacturers call percarbonate a cleaner, others a no rinse sanitiser ... the active ingredient is hydrogen peroxide, which I am pretty sure kills any microbes of interest.

P.S. as an aside to the OP, are you sure your pH papers are reliable?!

 

[lancon]

As Mmmbeer says check your water quality on water supply website.

seems crazy i know, i cant imagine my tap water being unusual in any way

I don't think that there is anything usual about water quality,( save it's H2O)

 

[RichardM]

...the idea of mixing my beer with the dregs of cleaning solutions doesn't really appeal! ...

In that case make sure you rinse after cleaning, before sanitising.

 

[Galena]

On the whole I am not sure I am convinced about 'no rinse' sanitisers - the idea of mixing my beer with the dregs of cleaning solutions doesn't really appeal! - but haven't noticed any odd flavours coming through.

No rinse sanitisers are not cleaning solutions so you should have already cleaned and rinsed before using it, therefore no dregs of cleaning solutions.

 

[DixeySJ]

Sorry @RichardM & @Galena sloppy use of language, I was of course referring to sanitiser when I said 'cleaning solutions' ... should be clear from the context, I've added an appropriate edit.

 

[Cestrian]

I always rinse my no rinse sanitiser. I don’t like the idea of starsan in my beer either. Never had any problems.

 

[Galena]

Well it's only acid, probably no worse than citric acid or lactic acid in your beer.

 

[foxbat]

Well it's only acid, probably no worse than citric acid or lactic acid in your beer.

Some people get concerned about the dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid in both Starsan and Chemsan because of the presence of the word 'benzene' in there, though I've yet to see anyone suggest a way for actual benzene to come about from the way that we use it in brewing.

 

[Random Badger]

Some people get concerned about the dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid in both Starsan and Chemsan because of the presence of the word 'benzene' in there, though I've yet to see anyone suggest a way for actual benzene to come about from the way that we use it in brewing.

Benzene = Benzin???

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I have started using easy clean no rinse as I went off VWP. I still rise as I think it’s no trouble and I don’t want that stuff in my beer. The Cheshire purity law doesn’t allow it anyway.

 

[Bill_g]

I have been using Starsan since I started brewing & as my 16oz bottle was coming to an end I had a bottle of Chemsan in the cupboard. So I ran a test. I consistently get a pH of below 3 with Starsan (typically around 2). I have a water softener which I use for the mix, so no problems with cloudiness even after several weeks.
My Chemsan mix (10ml to 5l as per bottle instructions) gave a pH of 6 using pH papers. My tap water pH is towards 8 again using pH papers and is the same whether from our softened supply or the incoming main.
I thought at first that it would seem that Chemsan is a different formulation and the <pH 3 rule for Starsan does not carry over .... HOWEVER HAVING CHECKED THE DATA SHEET .... it does indeed and the solution has to be <3.5pH to be effective.
An interesting problem, I feel a letter to the manufacturer comeing on! Something clearly wrong somewhere, a duff batch of Chemsan perhaps?

 

[Foggy Scruggs]

I have been using Starsan since I started brewing & as my 16oz bottle was coming to an end I had a bottle of Chemsan in the cupboard. So I ran a test. I consistently get a pH of below 3 with Starsan (typically around 2). I have a water softener which I use for the mix, so no problems with cloudiness even after several weeks.
My Chemsan mix (10ml to 5l as per bottle instructions) gave a pH of 6 using pH papers. My tap water pH is towards 8 again using pH papers and is the same whether from our softened supply or the incoming main.
I thought at first that it would seem that Chemsan is a different formulation and the <pH 3 rule for Starsan does not carry over .... HOWEVER HAVING CHECKED THE DATA SHEET .... it does indeed and the solution has to be <3.5pH to be effective.
An interesting problem, I feel a letter to the manufacturer comeing on! Something clearly wrong somewhere, a duff batch of Chemsan perhaps?

We seem to have encountered the same problem in that case.

Tomorrow is bottling day for me.

I'm gonna mix up a batch of Chemsan using bottled water (Tesco Ashbeck as others have suggested it works properly) and run another PH test. Will let you know what happens.

If it doesn't work with the bottled Ashbeck then I think a duff batch could well be the problem and a query to the manufacturer is indeed in order.

 

[MikeB.]

I noticed last time I used Chemsan that with the required dilution rate I wasn’t getting anywhere below 6 pH. I resorted to double dosing which dropped the pH to 3. I have however yet to try any beer from he fermenter which had the stronger Chemsan batch