Cant get my head around water treatment

[Appleton Brews]

I think you mean chloride

I do corrective text

 

[Davegase]

I do corrective text

Guilty of the same and post before reading back

 

[Davegase]

I'd say that is the main problem, people focus too much on the numbers and worry that if they aren't hitting them exactly every time, then their beer will be ruined. Forgetting that when you add grain to water those ion values get added to. That and stupid comments about beer potentially tasting minerally.

As for complicating things, why dilute with RO, treat with CRS, and then add in Calcium Chloride, Epsom Salt and Gypsum, when the correct dosage of CRS alone will give a profile?

Ca -96
Mg- 18
Na - 41
CO3 - 15
SO4 - 235
Cl - 118

You forgot to mention what the correct dose would be.
So not helpful to the OP.

I'd say that is the main problem, people focus too much on the numbers and worry that if they aren't hitting them exactly every time, then their beer will be ruined. Forgetting that when you add grain to water those ion values get added to. That and stupid comments about beer potentially tasting minerally.

As for complicating things, why dilute with RO, treat with CRS, and then add in Calcium Chloride, Epsom Salt and Gypsum, when the correct dosage of CRS alone will give a profile?

Ca -96
Mg- 18
Na - 41
CO3 - 15
SO4 - 235
Cl - 118

You forgot to mention what the correct dose would be.
So not really helpful to the OP.

 

[Sadfield]

Double post.

 

[Sadfield]

You forgot to mention what the correct dose would be.
So not helpful to the OP.

You forgot to mention what the correct dose would be.
So not really helpful to the OP.

Really? Posts #2 and #34. Around, 0.7 and 0.75 ml per litre of total volume. The Malt Miller link has a chart on dosage.

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...ad-around-water-treatment.106388/post-1309645

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...ad-around-water-treatment.106388/post-1309895 - 21.1ml for total volume of 29.6L clearly stated.

"You could forgo the Calcium Chloride and Calcium Sulphate, the difference wouldn't be very noticeable. The main focus is low alkalinity, and you already have enough Calcium. 21.1g of CRS/AMS and you are good to go. Leaving you with the following profile. More than OK for a Pale Ale, with a 2:1 Sulphate/Chloride ratio.

Ca -110
Mg- 18
Na - 41
CO3 - 15
SO4 - 235
Cl - 118"

 

[Agentgonzo]

I'm sorry but I don't find it that easy, probably because I'm scared of getting it wrong

I agree with hopscotty. You shouldn't be scared because there is nothing to "get wrong".

You can make fantastic beer by doing absolutely nothing to your tap water.

And if you start treating your water then your have to try really really hard to make it worse than your regular tap water.

Don't stress

 

[Davegase]

Really? Posts #2 and #34. Around, 0.7 and 0.75 ml per litre of total volume. The Malt Miller link has a chart on dosage.

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...ad-around-water-treatment.106388/post-1309645

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...ad-around-water-treatment.106388/post-1309895 - 21.1ml for total volume of 29.6L clearly stated.

"You could forgo the Calcium Chloride and Calcium Sulphate, the difference wouldn't be very noticeable. The main focus is low alkalinity, and you already have enough Calcium. 21.1g of CRS/AMS and you are good to go. Leaving you with the following profile. More than OK for a Pale Ale, with a 2:1 Sulphate/Chloride ratio.

Ca -110
Mg- 18
Na - 41
CO3 - 15
SO4 - 235
Cl - 118"

Yes really !
There are a lot of posts so it would have been simple to include that figure in post 78.
There's a lot of information for the OP, who said he has trouble getting his head round water treatment to digest, without having to go hunting back to post 2 and 34 !

 

[Sadfield]

Yes really !
There are a lot of posts so it would have been simple to include that figure in post 78.
There's a lot of information for the OP, who said he has trouble getting his head round water treatment to digest, without having to go hunting back to post 2 and 34 !

No hunting required, they had already read it. If you had bothered to read the thread you'd know that the OP had replied directly to posts number 2.

 

[peebee]

I read it. It didn't really understand it. ...

Heck, I wrote it as conversationally as possible. Okay, try this:

Have your "water report" in front of you and a pair of scissors. Find any part of the report that mentions "hardness", "soft", "hard", and "CaCO3".

Cut those lines out with the scissors. Stick them where the sun doesn't shine.

Do the same with anything measured less than 1mg/L.

Take what remains and see what ... I was going to say @Appleton Brews suggests, but he's changed his spots in this very thread (confusing as heck now) ... try @MashBag instead ... he's scratched record stuff and will tell you how much AMS (CRS) to add. Do that ... sorted ... next ...


@Libigage: I've already pushed yours through the "Defuddler" above to strip out all the useless junk; stop waving that flippin' useless water report about! Take my "Defuddler" output to @MashBag. He will play his scratched record and tell you how much AMS (CRS) to add (I think he already has?); it won't need much, but you've got slightly high "Alkalinity". What's left in the water will be fine for a "hoppy pale ale" (seriously!), forget about "spotless water".


Okay, next ... it's me teatime, must go before me missis slings "hard" water at me, good night.

 

[Davegase]

Okay, next ... it's me teatime, must go before me missis slings "hard" water at me, good night.

I thought you were in North Wales, where is she going to get hard water from

 

[Agentgonzo]

Heck, I wrote it as conversationally as possible. Okay, try this:

Have your "water report" in front of you and a pair of scissors. Find any part of the report that mentions "hardness", "soft", "hard", and "CaCO3".

Cut those lines out with the scissors. Stick them where the sun doesn't shine.

Do the same with anything measured less than 1mg/L.

Take what remains and see what ... I was going to say @Appleton Brews suggests, but he's changed his spots in this very thread (confusing as heck now) ... try @MashBag instead ... he's scratched record stuff and will tell you how much AMS (CRS) to add. Do that ... sorted ... next ...

So your advice is "discard some magic numbers from one source. Then use another entirely different magic number from a completely different source instead. But without understanding what it does.". Ta.

 

[Clint]

As for adding stuff..Strange Steve's calculator warns if you're in unhealthy territory for any salt additions....IIRC.

 

[Appleton Brews]

Take what remains and see what ... I was going to say @Appleton Brewssuggests, but he's changed his spots in this very thread (confusing as heck now) ... try @MashBag instead ... he's scratched record stuff and will tell you how much AMS (CRS) to add. Do that ... sorted ... next ..

What spots are you talking about I haven’t had spot in the last 50 years.

 

[MashBag]

Spots. SPOTS.
You can get a cream for that.

 

[peebee]

So your advice is "discard some magic numbers from one source. Then use another entirely different magic number from a completely different source instead. But without understanding what it does.". Ta.

How many instances of "magic number" appears in the "Defuddler"?

It is a phrase I know I've used in appropriate places. I'll be interested in your answer in this case.

Another brief question. How do you determine the amount of ... gypsum say ... to add to a "hoppy" pale ale using the "Defuddler"?

You tell me you've read the instructions but fail to understand some of it. But you should be able to quickly arrive at answers for the above.

 

[peebee]

Really? Posts #2 and #34. ...

Oops, you've got a few spurious quantities in post #34, Ca, Mg and SO4 ... best change them before anyone notices.

(Errors for Ca ang Mg can be ignored, but SO4 is a bit steep).

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Has anyone ever made two identical brews using untreated and treated water to compare the end result?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Has anyone ever made two identical brews using untreated and treated water to compare the end result?

Brulosophy have. A few times.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Thanks, I meant forum members.

 

[Sadfield]

Oops, you've got a few spurious quantities in post #34, Ca, Mg and SO4 ... best change them before anyone notices.

View attachment 107674
(Errors for Ca ang Mg can be ignored, but SO4 is a bit steep).

No need @peebee as it doesn't matter, that's the point outlined below it and in post #2. The OP has enough of everything, enough calcium, too much alkalinity. Reducing the latter with CRS will only really alter the anions, adding more sulphate and chloride. Job done, no need to worry about calculations beyond how much CRS to add. The mash will work, the yeast will be happy, the beer should be of a good quality.