Campaigner Indigo Rumbelow,

[Rodcx500z]

We have reached the point we're nobody believes anything anymore

 

[Stan's Brew]

Oh dear. A climate change denier. That's all we need. Trump will, no doubt, be overjoyed to learn there's at least two of you!

Where do you get that I'm a climate change denier from?

Climate change is a function of the planet, the sun and nature, there's no question, it's been happening since the dawn of time!

 

[Stan's Brew]

1. The 'climate crisis' look at the science
2. 'the masses .....giving up hard earned tax money' I am not sure where this comes from. If it read 'companies giving up billions of pounds/dollars of profit it would make more sense.
3. 'all these climate action groups are funded....' tried to find the proof, found an Australian from a mining group spouting something akin to this.
4. the masses have to be with by strong leadership, unfortunately that is not the case with the government still preferring to doff their cap to the oil companies and still refuse to go for the quickest route to oil free power, onshore wind farms.

What do you mean by the science, who funds the scientists that provide 'the science'?
Where do the corporations get their money from to pay the climate levies imposed on them by governments? Where do governments get their money from to fund the climate industry?
Just stop oil is funded by:

https://www.energylivenews.com/2022...oil-billionaire-funds-just-stop-oil-protests/

 

[Stan's Brew]

OK, I got my figures slightly wrong it's $2 Trillion a YEAR they want in climate reparations .... but China has been given an exception.

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022...rillion-a-year-to-cope-with-climate-crisis-re

 

[lancon]

What do you mean by the science, who funds the scientists that provide 'the science'?
Where do the corporations get their money from to pay the climate levies imposed on them by governments? Where do governments get their money from to fund the climate industry?
Just stop oil is funded by:

https://www.energylivenews.com/2022...oil-billionaire-funds-just-stop-oil-protests/

Where do you get that I'm a climate change denier from?

Climate change is a function of the planet, the sun and nature, there's no question, it's been happening since the dawn of time!

Climate change is a term today used lazily that should be climate change caused by human action. Yes there always has been climate change but the effect of human intervention means that the change is greater than would normally be expected.
However if it is, (and rightly or wrongly, it is,) generally accepted that climate change denier means refusal to accept the effect of human interaction on the environment, then it is probably fair, judging by other comments and questions you have posted that yes, in today's terms, you fit the accusation.

and what's wrong with a rich person helping to fund an action group?

 

[Stan's Brew]

Climate change is a term today used lazily that should be climate change caused by human action. Yes there always has been climate change but the effect of human intervention means that the change is greater than would normally be expected.
However if it is, (and rightly or wrongly, it is,) generally accepted that climate change denier means refusal to accept the effect of human interaction on the environment, then it is probably fair, judging by other comments and questions you have posted that yes, in today's terms, you fit the accusation.

I agree that unfortunately the term 'climate change denier' has become the pejorative slur normally used to lump together people who raise questions about the mainstream climate agenda that pushes additional taxes on working people whilst simultaneously blaming those hardworking people for the problems that they are being told are being caused by them and therefore they should pay for it.

It's disingenuous and regrettable and is used, usually by people in power and control, to shut down debate, it's ultimately about power and control by rich elitists with psychopathic tendencies. People who will never lead by example.

There are two sides to the anthropogenic climate change debate, governments and globaliists currently forward the view that the 'science is settled' therefore we should pay and it will magically disappear, whilst simultaneously excusing the Chinese, being the biggest polluter.

and what's wrong with a rich person helping to fund an action group?

Undue influence through lobbying politicians who in turn will direct the police to 'go easy' on illegal acts by action groups that they favour or support their own agenda
Undue influence over mainstream media and social media
Corruption of people in positions of power ie politicians, local councils
These are some of the main concerns I'm sure there are plenty of other wrongs

Top down billionaire influence, not grass roots, by the people for the people.

 

[Clint]

I do think that the "data" being used isn't enough as it's only in recorded,human existence which in the grand scheme of things is micro seconds.
I take these bouts of extraordinary and freak weather examples caused by climate change with a pinch of salt...
Great big floods in places that "never" flooded,hot summers,high wind,snow...
I always think of York...the river running through it is called the Ouse...named by the Vikings because every winter it "oused" out of its normal course to flood the surrounding land. Strangely they never built their houses in the areas that flooded.
Perhaps things are changing but like everything we're "fed" by our overseers we don't honestly know if it's the truth or what's behind it all.
I'd sooner they say they're going oil free because they don't like the way the Arabs treat their people but that would be too truthful and the oil may stop a bit too sooner than required.

 

[Stan's Brew]

I do think that the "data" being used isn't enough as it's only in recorded,human existence which in the grand scheme of things is micro seconds.
I take these bouts of extraordinary and freak weather examples caused by climate change with a pinch of salt...
Great big floods in places that "never" flooded,hot summers,high wind,snow...
I always think of York...the river running through it is called the Ouse...named by the Vikings because every winter it "oused" out of its normal course to flood the surrounding land. Strangely they never built their houses in the areas that flooded.
Perhaps things are changing but like everything we're "fed" by our overseers we don't honestly know if it's the truth or what's behind it all.
I'd sooner they say they're going oil free because they don't like the way the Arabs treat their people but that would be too truthful and the oil may stop a bit too sooner than required.

Those Vikings new a thing or two, a fascinating history of the Ouse

Also we had a medieval warm period, a Roman warm period, a couple of Grand Solar minimums, we are supposed to be entering another grand solar minimum predicted to last 20-30 years.

 

[Rodcx500z]

One day the big bright orb in the sky will be a white dwarf our planet will look like Mars everything will be dead but, and it's a big but all we have to do is glue ourselfs to a road climb on a building waving a few banners round o and stop using oil and all will be good, think it's called evolution it has been going for longer than we have been here, or ribs and apples in a garden called Eden could or might be true

 

[dad_of_jon]

The problem as I see it is down to an economic model and the number of people on the planet. less people less use of resources. Science and technology try to cover the gap, yet these new discoveries can only be utilized by large corporations. i.e can any of us make a solar panel and the associated components ourself. So we are beholden to powers often difficult to influence. If economies were not run on the growth model which is espoused as the way to personal prosperity. (I think part of this is a ploy to skim off a bigger chunk of wealth from us plebs.) A recession will be good for reduction of consumption, but at what cost to those who are currently struggling to keep afloat?

How can we keep a reasonable standard of living without over consuming resources? and having consumed so much for so long how can we expect others not to?

 

[dad_of_jon]

One day the big bright orb in the sky will be a white dwarf our planet will look like Mars everything will be dead but, and it's a big but all we have to do is glue ourselfs to a road climb on a building waving a few banners round o and stop using oil and all will be good, think it's called evolution it has been going for longer than we have been here, or ribs and apples in a garden called Eden could or might be true

This is why I'm supportive of mr. musks vision of becoming inter planetary, maybe as described in the hitchhikers guide the useless 1/3 of the population can be left behind or sent ahead as appropriate.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

You miss the point so spectacularly.
People that make the rules don't give a monkey's toss.

Sorry but it's you that is missing the point, if you don't believe that (as has already been said) thousands of people turning up at the Houses of Parliament and chaining themselves to railings and road signs blocking traffic and being a general pain in the arse is not going to get them *more coverage and their message across than blocking the M25 there really isn't much point in carrying on this conversation.
*The media are not allowed on the M25 so couldn't interview the protesters but they could at the houses of parliament and get the word directly from the horses mouth.

 

[An Ankoù]

Sorry but it's you that is missing the point, if you don't believe that (as has already been said) thousands of people turning up at the Houses of Parliament and chaining themselves to railings and road signs blocking traffic and being a general pain in the **** is not going to get them *more coverage and their message across than blocking the M25 there really isn't much point in carrying on this conversation.
*The media are not allowed on the M25 so couldn't interview the protesters but they could at the houses of parliament and get the word directly from the horses mouth.

There aren't thousands of people willing to protest yet.
If there were, there aren't enough railings outside the houses of Parliament for them to chain themselves to, or road signs either.

Of course, if there were thousands they'd get more coverage, but there aren't and just a few wouldn't get any.
Indigo is an M25 protester and she did get interviewed.

.. (as has already been said) repetition doesn't make an argument any more valid.

You introduced the topic, if you don't want to carry on that's your choice. But I maintain she's a brave girl doing the right thing under the circumstances. I'm not trying to make you agree with me.

 

[lancon]

Sorry but it's you that is missing the point, if you don't believe that (as has already been said) thousands of people turning up at the Houses of Parliament and chaining themselves to railings and road signs blocking traffic and being a general pain in the **** is not going to get them *more coverage and their message across than blocking the M25 there really isn't much point in carrying on this conversation.
*The media are not allowed on the M25 so couldn't interview the protesters but they could at the houses of parliament and get the word directly from the horses mouth.

I think one of the reasons that the M25 protests are being done is that the government haven't moved as fast as they can, are still negotiating licences with oil and gas companies. The media know what the problems are, they have interviewed enough, but are still not putting pressure on the government/oil companies & etc asking them the questions,.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I removed the personal insult from your post you really do not need to stoop that low i thought you were better than that.

There aren't thousands of people willing to protest If there were, there aren't enough railings outside the houses of Parliament for them to chain themselves to, or road signs either.

If the demonstration was planned for THOP it would be a lot easier to organise and get people to therefore many more would turn up and i am sure they would easily find something to chain or glue (which they have used in the past) themselves to, they have glued themselves to the road and pavements in the past there are plenty of those round THOP.

Of course, if there were thousands they'd get more coverage, but there aren't and just a few wouldn't get any.
Indigo is an M25 protester and she did get interviewed.

As above there would be many hundreds as THOP is an easy place to get to as for Indigo i thought she failed miserably and when she started shouting she lost the argument and i am not the only one that thought so!

I'm not trying to make you agree with me.

Neither am i.

 

[An Ankoù]

I removed the personal insult from your post you really do not need to stoop that low i thought you were better than that.



If the demonstration was planned for THOP it would be a lot easier to organise and get people to THOP so many more would turn up and i am sure they would easily find something to chain or glue (which they have used in the past) themselves to, they have glued themselves to the road there are plenty or roads round THOP.



But failed miserably in my view and i am not the only one that thought so!




Neither am i.

No personal insult intended, for sure. The criticism was of the argument not the speaker. Not unusual in philosophical disputation, which I thought we were engaged in. if I offended you. I apologise.
It has been an interesting thread and an eye-opener, certainly, for me. I had thought that the older and wiser generation might be more concerned about the effects of climate change than they woud seem to be from the contributions thus far and feel more responsible for the legacy we're leaving our youngsters, too. I was also taken aback by the sentiments expressed towards Indigo. I really thought I was reading the Express at one stage.
Anyway, I think I've said all I have to on the matter as the thread is in danger of going around in circles.
Of course if something new comes up, I'll probably have something to add.

 

[Stan's Brew]

No personal insult intended, for sure. The criticism was of the argument not the speaker. Not unusual in philosophical disputation, which I thought we were engaged in. if I offended you. I apologise.
It has been an interesting thread and an eye-opener, certainly, for me. I had thought that the older and wiser generation might be more concerned about the effects of climate change than they woud seem to be from the contributions thus far and feel more responsible for the legacy we're leaving our youngsters, too. I was also taken aback by the sentiments expressed towards Indigo. I really thought I was reading the Express at one stage.
Anyway, I think I've said all I have to on the matter as the thread is in danger of going around in circles.
Of course if something new comes up, I'll probably have something to add.

I fear for the future of my children, but with a different view of the world to yourself, I am sure that anyone with children feels the same, possibly for different reasons.

I like the philosophical approach, strong words can be stated without animosity that way, on important topics that matter to us all.

Above all though, beer is THE most important topic and weekends in the snug was always a place for fellow beer lovers to come together and chat sh*t.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

@Benfleet Brewery posted this in the video of the day thread defiantly worth a repost here -

 

[dad_of_jon]

@Benfleet Brewery posted this in the video of the day thread defiantly worth a repost here -

Yup yet another person telling us how we should refrain from a certain course of action whilst they continue to.

Really clever people can influence change without teeing off large swathes of society. She isn't one of them.
she may not even be aware that fuel comes from oil

She's wrong about her future we all have one, for some it will be shorter than others.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I worry about my kids future but it has nothing to do climate change