Burton Ale / IPA and bottle-conditioning

[JimSY]

Hi all,

I'm looking at brewing an old Burton IPA and stumbled across this recipe: https://beerandbrewing.com/a-recipe-for-historic-burton-ipa/

It makes use of a brettanomyces claussenii yeast strain in the tertiary fermenter but does anyone have any thoughts / suggestions / experience to determine how much to use? A whole smack-pack seems a lot to add to an already fermented beer. It'll be racked to bottles once complete, which also adds to the equation!

Alternatively, does anyone have a good recipe for an old-skool English IPA they could share? Worthington's White Shield, perhaps?

Many thanks in advance!

Ta - Jim

 

[Dutto]

.......... A whole smack-pack seems a lot to add to an already fermented beer. It'll be racked to bottles once complete, which also adds to the equation!

.......

Think on lad! As the brew is already fermented:

1. Why do you need to add any yeast?
2. As the yeast will be hunting for sugar to digest will you not need as much possible to get a result?

BTW, "tertiary" meaning "third stage", I have only ever brewed in two stages. This was a lager that, after two weeks at +/-18*C, was left to ferment out at +/-12*C for about 12 weeks. I didn't add any extra yeast.

 

[foxbat]

Think on lad! As the brew is already fermented:

1. Why do you need to add any yeast?

It's Brett, a.k.a. wild yeast. It'll ferment the sugars declined by the original Sacc strain. This is an odd recipe.

 

[Dutto]

It's Brett, a.k.a. wild yeast. It'll ferment the sugars declined by the original Sacc strain. This is an odd recipe.

Odd indeed - and way past what I have ever brewed; intentionally!

 

[AdeDunn]

Could be it's trying to mimic the peculiar way that Bass IPA was stored historically, basically been piled up in wooden barrels for up to 12 months in the yards in their Burton Upon Trent brewery (you think that it DIDN'T get innoculated with wild yeasts in this time? lol). Sadly, my Vintage brewing book discusses the history of Bass IPA, but doesn't include a recipe for it. The historical IPA recipes it does include are things like Whitbread, Barclay Perkins etc, none of which stored in the same manner, and don't have Brett in the recipe. lol

 

[The Baron]

White Shield recipe
23 Ltr
4k pale malt
480 grams of white sugar
335 of medium crystal
28 g of challenger @ start of boil 60 mins
19 g of northdown @ start of boil
last 10 mins 18 g of northdown
IBU 40
ABV 5.6
colour 21 EBC
use a suitable ale yeast of your choice adjust hops to suit if AA are different to original recipe
hope this helps

 

[JimSY]

Thanks for the replies, guys, as always, much appreciated!

Could be it's trying to mimic the peculiar way that Bass IPA was stored historically

Apparently this is indeed the reason the brett is recommended: it mimics the yeast that would have been present in the barrels. The guys who came up with the recipe seem to have put it together based on a history book and I suppose wanted to include the barrel-yeast for completeness.

As the yeast will be hunting for sugar to digest will you not need as much possible to get a result?

This is my concern also, Dutto - not sure if leaving the yeast out would make a big deal but I do like the authenticity aspect behind it, just can't help but think dumping a whole pack of yeast is going to make it lousy!

Thanks again folks!

 

[peebee]

That's a terrible article of "historic IPA". It describes another American IPA perhaps?

More research needed I think.

Personally I chose to brew a "domestic" PA from that time that wouldn't need such long maturing to deal with the enormous IBUs.

BTW Burton Ale and IPA are entirely different drinks.

 

[JimSY]

480 grams of white sugar

Thanks for the recipe, Baron - one question though, when would you add the sugar?

 

[terrym]

Worthington White Shield is, apparently, only one of a few beers representative of what English IPAs used to be like, and since it was originally brewed in Burton, and is now brewed there again from what I understand , I suppose is the only truly representative remaining example of a 'Burton IPA'. So any recipe, like the one provided by @the baron is the way to go.
And 'Burton Ale' generically covers all sorts of beers including, in my lifetime, beers brewed by Everards, Trumans, and of course Marstons who continue to brew in the town alongside the international conglomerate Coors who swallowed up Bass, Worthington, and Ind Coope, plus few smaller breweries in the town like Burton Bridge. Finally, unless there are others with the same name, specifically Burton Ale was a premium bitter brewed by Ind Coope.

 

[The Baron]

you can add the sugar in the last 10 mins of the boil or in the fermentation vessel as long as it is dissolved well. I usually add it to the last 10 mins of the boil that way you know it is dissolved. do not add early in the boil as it can burn on your element or even use dark sugar for a richer taste

 

[peebee]

@terrym Burton Ale was "gone for a burton" soon after wwii.

 

[marshbrewer]

That's a terrible article of "historic IPA". It describes another American IPA perhaps?

More research needed I think.

Personally I chose to brew a "domestic" IPA from that time that wouldn't need such long maturing to deal with the enormous IBUs.

BTW Burton Ale and IPA are entirely different drinks.

Have to agree with this; the hop schedule looks quite unlike anything I have seen in any historic recipe. To many late additions, IMHO.

 

[peebee]

http://zythophile.co.uk/2007/10/08/come-back-for-the-burtons/

Bit of background on Burton Ale.

 

[peebee]

http://www.durdenparkbeer.org.uk/Recipes.html

The Ushers 60/- was the "domestic" pale ale I went with.

 

[AdeDunn]

Ok, I've gone through my book: The Home Brewers Guide To Vintage Beer by Ron Pattinson (he runs the blog, Shut Up About Barclay Perkins, and actually researches the recipes etc properly). First thing, if you want to try to brew something accurate, don't use Maris Otter, it's kilned too dark. Pale malt way back when was paler than MO. Use the best quality British pale malt you can, just not MO. Hop additions never later than 30 minutes. His recipes don't actually mention the batch size, so play in your software to find if this works for 20 or 23 litres... The IBUs are theoretical, so don't be so concerned with them as the OG. lol

As to a recipe, Terrym mentioned Trumans, so here you got, 1877 Truman P1 recipe:-

Single infusion mash, followed by a sparge. Mash at 66.7 degrees C. Sparge at 76.7 degrees C.

Pale malt 6700g

90 minute boil

Hops (I'd assume whole, pretty sure there were no pellets back then.... lol)

Cluster hops @ 90 minutes 113g (We were importing this apparently from the US from the 1840s onwards)
Fuggles @ 60 minutes 113g
Golding @ 30 minutes 113g

OG 1.064. FG 1.020. Apparent attenuation 68.75%. 170 IBUs. Colour SRM 6 (11.8 EBC).

Yeast, either Wyeast 1028 London Ale, or White Labs WLP013 London Ale. Pitching temp 15.6 degrees C.

 

[Cwrw666]

Pattinson does state somewhere in the book that all the recipes are for a 23L brew but it's not with the actual recipes. He also says that that the IBU figures are somewhat theoretical and in practice the beers aren't as bitter as the IBU figure would suggest.
I've only made the 1864 Lovibond XB recipe. Firstly because it didn't involve sugars and caramel, secondly because it was one of the lower IBUs of the pale ales. 83 in fact but the finished brew was no more bitter than the Greg Hughes English IPA recipes which is in the 60s.
I was surprised how good the finished beer was for such a simple recipe. Just pale malt and goldings hops.

 

[IainM]

I like the idea of attempting to recreate an IPA from Burton. In addition to the issues above, and something that wasn't mentioned on the web page, is that you're going to want to add some gypsum to get the sulfates and calcium up, and maybe even some epsom salts if you're trying to be as authentic as possible.

 

[marshbrewer]

I've only made the 1864 Lovibond XB recipe. Firstly because it didn't involve sugars and caramel, secondly because it was one of the lower IBUs of the pale ales. 83 in fact but the finished brew was no more bitter than the Greg Hughes English IPA recipes which is in the 60s.
I was surprised how good the finished beer was for such a simple recipe. Just pale malt and goldings hops.

I can also testify how surprisingly good the 1864 Lovibond XP is, well worth a try. I did it with golden promise, because that's what I had to hand.

 

[terrym]

According to Roger Protz on an article he penned in 2014 and available on tinterweb Marstons Owd Rodger is a 'fine example of a Burton Ale' first brewed in 1906 and comes in at about 7.6% He also says it is 'brewed with pale Cassata malt, crystal malt, glucose and caramel. The complex hop regime is made up of Bobek, Fuggles, Goldings, Pilgrim, Progress and Sovereign.'
Anyway although this normally comes in bottles in limited supply, according to Marstons website it is currently available in cask at a few selected pubs up and down the country pinpointed on a map, so anyone wanting to try it may be lucky if they have a pub near them that has some. Sadly I don't, but I did have some years ago on cask and from what I can remember was very impressed.