Building a new boiler...

[AdeDunn]

One thing i have found is the splatter guard is hard to clean. It was ok first few times but now its coated in old grain just like a bazooka filter. I will try boiling it in oxyclean tomorrow night to see if that works.

Yeah, my Bazooka used to be a pig for filling with bits of grain.

For your gasket, what about taking a piece of food & temp safe silicon tube and splitting it lengthways so that you just slip that over the rim of the pizza tray?

Tried that first bud. The wall on 1/2 inch hose is too thin though. I considered using 3/4 inch hose, but the length I'd need would cost more than the pressure cooker gasket.

Got airline tubing split round mine works fine creates a great seal between the tank and the screen

Hope you mean silicone air line. Way too thin though.

 

[AdeDunn]

So, probably pretty easy to guess what I'm going to be tinkering with soon?

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

Yeah, my Bazooka used to be a pig for filling with bits of grain.



Tried that first bud. The wall on 1/2 inch hose is too thin though. I considered using 3/4 inch hose, but the length I'd need would cost more than the pressure cooker gasket.



Hope you mean silicone air line. Way too thin though.

No its not silicone its co2 air line.its heat resistant and food safe.

 

[AdeDunn]

No its not silicone its co2 air line.its heat resistant and food safe.

Fair enough, CO2 tubing is polyurethane, aquarium air line, if it's not silicone, is pvc hence my concern. I have CO2 tubing coming out of my ears, as for many years I ran a high tech planted aquarium, complete with a pressurised CO2 injection system. It's too thin for what I need though still sadly.

 

[AdeDunn]

So, a little bit further along in been able to continue with this build. Received some more of the parts ordered for my controller build.



I have some more parts arriving tonight (I already have a second hot condition kettle lead).

Now however I am at a point where I need a bit of advice. I've come up with the following circuit for the build. The switches are 4 pin illuminated DPST rocker switches, rated for 16A at 240v, so should be able to handle the current draw (if they can't, then the fuse in the plug into the wall socket is going to blow... lol). These switches are designed to have the neutral pass through them (in order to power the illumination) but only switch the live (I've dried to indicate this on the circuit diagram).

I want to include the voltage control for both mash and boil, but want to be able to bypass AND isolate the SSR from the AC mains current. The idea been that when it comes to boil I isolate the SSR and close the direct path to the voltage control. This way the PID should continue to function during the boil, and more importantly when cooling the wort, but as a temperature readout only. The voltage control is because I am 90% certain that the 2.4kw element will be too much to maintain temps during the mash without scorching, and I also found previously that 2500 watts was a truly insane boil (with my old boiler), and I don't believe for one minute that a reduction of just 100 watts is going to be enough. So I want to be able to run at reduced power when mashing, and also to be able to control the boil better.

Probe will be mounted before the pump, after the tap. For now anyway. Reason for this is I want to use the PID to read the temperature of the wort whilst cooling. Now when cooling I DO use recirculation to speed this up, but I DON'T use the lid, so I can't mount it on the return if I want to do this. At some point I will probably add a hole and mount a probe into the body of the boiler, and switch which probe I use when mashing and when boiling.

Anyway, this is the plan at the moment. I've not put the temp probe on there as didn't feel a need to.

If it turns out that I don't need it during the boil, I'll just remove it from the boil circuit, whilst keeping it in the mash circuit., like this:-

Thoughts?

Oh and no main power switch, for the simple reason that if I want to turn off the main power I'll unplug it... lol No pump control either, as I wanted to start simple, I can always add pump control later.

 

[patwestlake]

I wouldn't worry about the lid insulation too much - its your kettle right? In which case you need to boil with the lid of anyway to reduce DMS and other volatile nasties. Nice job on the rest of it though! I'd experiment with the pick-up tube though - it really needs to be as big a bore as you can get as any suction restrictions will give the pump a really hard time. Discharge restrictions are a completely different matter, but you want the suction as free as possible

Pat

 

[AdeDunn]

I wouldn't worry about the lid insulation too much - its your kettle right? In which case you need to boil with the lid of anyway to reduce DMS and other volatile nasties. Nice job on the rest of it though! I'd experiment with the pick-up tube though - it really needs to be as big a bore as you can get as any suction restrictions will give the pump a really hard time. Discharge restrictions are a completely different matter, but you want the suction as free as possible

Pat

Thanks for the feedback Pat. I'm going to be mashing in there as well though, not just boiling, hence my consideration regarding the lid insulation. It'll be kettle RIMS though, so it shouldn't have that much impact even if it isn't A1.

I'll certainly consier the pick up tube, however I have to run the pump at 1/3rd output anyway when doing BIAB with re-circulation, otherwise a vacuum gets created under the false bottom and all sorts of bad things happen (happened on the last brew using my old boiler when I ran it higher). I could probably use rice husks to improve things if push comes to shove though.

Anyway, I made a start on the panel, end of the day wiring can be changed very easily anyway. Not the tidiest cuts ever, but heh I'm using a drill, a hole saw, a power jigsaw and a padsaw... lol


Odd place for the SSR heatsink I know, but the sides and bottom of the box would be VERY hard to cut as they're reinforced with ribbing.

 

[AdeDunn]

Panel build has continued apace, especially as the probe and power controller arrived from China today. You may also noticed that I had to make some alterations, there was too much getting in the way of putting the PID in before.

Power control isn't powered yet, I haven't wired the switches up yet (waiting on terminal connectors to arrive), but I plugged it in and the PID lit up nicely. As a bonus, I survived to post about it... Hopefully that tiny bit inaccurate reading will be fixed once I autotune the PID maybe? If not, I'll need a better probe.

​

 

[AdeDunn]

After a fair bit of wiring and re-wiring, I had to compromise on this circuit:-



Which lacks the ability to remove the SSR from the circuit during the boil. Reason for this is that apparently leakage from the SSR is enough that the "Boil" switch lighting would flicker on every time the PID send a signal to it, which was incredibly annoying.

The plan now is to get a new PT100 probe and fit it to the body of the boiler (the one off eBay I suspect is seriously inaccurate anyway), that way it can be used for the mash and the boil. I'll fit a 3 pin XLR socket to the control panel box, and plug to the probe, so that I can remove it for storage. Not as ideal as been able to unplug at the boiler end, but meh...

Oh, and the power control is before the SSR in the circuit, wiring it after it means if flickers on and off. The SSR (a 40 amp one) will function right down to 32V, so will be more than happy to have a reduced power feed going into it.

IF it turns out I really need to be able to isolate the SSR when boiling, I'll try something like this:-

 

[foxbat]

I have many PT100 sensors from eBay and they're all off by significant amounts, some so much that I suspect that that the sense element may not even be platinum. Check out thermosense in the UK for a good range of sensors at reasonable prices. An RTD is a good choice. They're expensive but they're the gold standard where accuracy is required. Even good ones need to be calibrated mind you.

 

[AdeDunn]

I have many PT100 sensors from eBay and they're all off by significant amounts, some so much that I suspect that that the sense element may not even be platinum. Check out thermosense in the UK for a good range of sensors at reasonable prices. An RTD is a good choice. They're expensive but they're the gold standard where accuracy is required. Even good ones need to be calibrated mind you.

Hmm, given mine is only about 4 degrees out, it might be worth trying calibration. It's supposed to be an RTD PT100, one with 2 blue connections and 1 red.

 

[AdeDunn]

So, it seems that keeping things simple was easier said than done... Ended up increasing the complexity somewhat.

My panel now operates in a manner where when mashing I can mash with the power regulator or without. Same when boiling, I can boil with the power control in the circuit, or without. All with the flick of one of 2 x 3 position switches.

I also added a lit (red LED) 12 volt switch that allows me to block the signal from the PID to the SSR (When the mash switch is off, and the boil switch on either of the 2 ons, the SSR is cut out of the circuit, allowing boiling without the SSR been in the circuit).

I have a lit switch that controls power to the panel, a second lit switch that turns of the power to the element from the panel, with the panel still powered.

Finally, I added a lit (green led) 12 volt push switch to control the pump.

So, you can see here that there's no power at all to the element switch with neither mash nor boil switch in an on position:-



Flick either the mash or boil switch into an on position, et voila, power:-



I'll improve the labelling at some point (PR= with power regulation, No PR= without power regulation), and I need to test it properly on the boiler.

 

[AdeDunn]

More work done on the boiler itself.

Nearly finished the false bottom, just need to put a bead of silicone on the top and bottom to hold the gasket in place.



It's a perfect fit, but friction pops the gasket off when fitting the false bottom into the boiler, hence I need to silicone it on.

On the boiler itself, I've fitted a second tap just for the pump after getting feedback that the narrow bore of the pickup would possibly cause problems for the pump. As a bonus, this should make for less blockages when transferring. I also swapped out the elbow in the lid for a T, the plan been to fit a second PT 100 probe into this to use when recirculating.




To do: Bead of silicone, top and bottom, around the gasket on the false bottom. Fit a whirlpool port on the boiler (need a tap before I can do this so I can close it off whilst mashing). Make bigger holes in the pizza tray on the false bottom to open it up more.

 

[AdeDunn]

Boiler with the recirculation system in place:-



You can see how I have insulated the hose to reduce heat loss a little (sadly the metal fittings will lose more heat, but I'd need the tape type lagging to sort them out in the same way.).

I've also built my temporary whirlpool attachment once again, you can see how it just hangs on over the rim of the pot:-




It's not perfect, as the outlet is at a 45 degree angle rather than 90 degrees, but it's better than nothing and used to do a really good job of speeding up cooling of the wort.

 

[AdeDunn]

That's the false bottom finished, and trust me when I say that the gasket isn't going anywhere:-



It's a VERY tight fit, so job done.

 

[AdeDunn]

Finally got around to doing some proper testing today. Filled the boiler with water and ran a hot test.

Controller worked a treat. Although the PV temp shows 2 degrees higher than the set temp, when measured with an glass thermometer the temperature was spot on the temperature set and stayed there.

What didn't go so well was the false bottom, it's a total failure. It went rusty pretty much instantly! So that's going into the bin as a failure... Time to give up and buy one from Powell Homebrew (discussed and agreed with my wife) as I am fed up of messing with this now.

 

[Fil]

shame about the FB after all the work and thought invested in it.. best laid plans etc....

grand pot build otherwise.. yu might wanna check out homebrewbuilder for your fb if looking at cut to fit perforated ss sheet cut 1-2mm undersize a length of split beer/gasline makes the ideal seal

i would also consider looking at armoflex tube insulation and add it over the ss pipe fittings as much as you can, its flexibility outweighs its softness imho by miles..

 

[AdeDunn]

Yeah, all things considered I spent just as much trying to build my own as it would have cost to just buy one.... lol

I was looking at one of these https://powellbrewing.co.uk/product/33ltr-stainless-steel-false-bottom/. In theory, it should be a perfect fit, in theory. I would however possibly need to fit slightly longer legs, as not sure there's enough clearance there for my element and the 2 intakes (1 with a narrow pickup pipe for transfer, 1 full bore for the pump) and the whirlpool fitting.

The insulation I have on the hose is Climaflex. Sadly it just isn't flexible enough for the tight angles of the metal parts though, which is a shame as I have a fair bit left.

One thing the test did confirm was that it was the right decision to have a separate intake for the pump without the pickup pipe. The flow from the tap with the pickup pipe fitted is massively reduced in comparison to that from the tap used for the pump. It's bonkers having 3 taps on the pot for sure, but it does the job spot on. I'll post a new pic at some point.

 

[AdeDunn]

New false bottom finally arrived from Powell Brewing. Very heavy and well made for sure:-




The gasket (comes with) is the rigid tubing used for beer line I believe. Need to switch out the legs (which are made up of M8 hex headed 304 stainless bolts) though, not even a full 4cm clearance under there means it's resting on the nuts for my taps on one side, whilst leaning over and resting on the "legs" on the other side... lol So I have some 316 stainless M8 70mm bolts on order to replace them with.

Other than the legs been too short for my needs though, the fit is spot on.

 

[Fil]

Whens the inaugural brew then? and whats on the menu?? have a ball with it and take a few snaps for the brewday report too