BT to retire the old analogue phone network. (title edited)

[Agentgonzo]

Sorry I meant could you get FTTC?
We had FTTC before we switched to FTTP.

We have FTTC. That's pretty widespread nowadays. But the last mile (as Stu says) for a large amount of the UK is copper. Most places don't have the option of FTTP yet.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I'm confused, Does the UK have TV internet and phone over the same cable?

Yes. In times of old, the copper cables coming into the home only carried an analogue phone signal.

Then ADSL came along (1990s) and allowed both Internet (data) and the old analogue voice to be carried over the same cable. That's what all copper-based (from your house) internet connections use and what all non-fibre broadband uses.

The big switch-off mentioned in this thread is turning off the old analogue voice over these existing cables and making the copper cable to houses carry data only. The home broadband router will then do the voice<-->data conversion and you'll plug your phone into the router instead of the wall socket.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I'm confused, Does the UK have TV internet and phone over the same cable? I mean I know it's possible, but phonecables existed before TV cables. So which ones will be switched off?

Edit to add -
I didn't see AG's post above this when I posted this -


I haven't had time to dig deeper but this is what BT are saying.

BT, who plan to retire their copper network as fibre is rolled out UK wide. In fact, they have already signalled that once an area is served by 75% fibre to the premises then no more copper-based services will be sold. Other providers are less reliant on copper twisted-pair cables in their networks and so for them, there is likely to be less disruptio

 

[Agentgonzo]

It may be that "once an area is served by 75% fibre to the premises then no new copper-based services will be sold (but existing copper-based services will continue to work"? Or it may by that they are meaning "to the cabinet" rather than "to the home".

A huge amount of the UK has copper to the cabinet with no alternative. They're not about to turn it off and disconnect a huge amount of the population.

 

[LeeH]

I wish we had the option of FTTP. We live in a rural setting and there are no plans for FTTP/cable

You never know…I was in the same situation but a little company (we have 50 properties here) Brought FTTP into the village as we could claim a voucher off the previous government.

950Mbps up/down.

 

[Druss]

It's definitely worth switching if possible.

I've had full fibre for almost a month now and it's a massive improvement from the old FTTC that we toiled with previously.

We've gone from an average Internet speed of 65mps with FTTC (often grindingly slow considering the sheer amount of devices we have perpetually connected) to 900mps with full fibre and we're only paying an extra tenner or so per month.

We could have gone cheaper, in fact cheaper than we were paying before and still had around 500mps guaranteed, but as others here, I have kids who are big gamers so the higher speed works better for that.

No more land line but the only calls we ever got were from some fella trying to sell us driveways, so it's no great loss

 

[Agentgonzo]

You never know…I was in the same situation but a little company (we have 50 properties here) Brought FTTP into the village as we could claim a voucher off the previous government.

950Mbps up/down.

We tried that as a village a few years ago. Couldn't get enough (a few hundred) to commit to it so it never went though

 

[Chippy_Tea]

No more land line but the only calls we ever got were from some fella trying to sell us driveways, so it's no great loss

Same here on the calls we never used the landline.

We were offered a voice service as Talk Talk supply a free small box that plugs into one ethernet port on the router and allows you to plug a standard landline phone into it and you keep your number seems to work well but I am glad to see the back of the old phone.

 

[hop-a-long]

This thread reminds me of a holliday in Scotland where the only internetconnection was at a local postoffice with a 28k modem. talk about shocking response times!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

This thread reminds me of a holliday in Scotland where the only internetconnection was at a local postoffice with a 28k modem. talk about shocking response times!

I remember back in the day when we all played FPS's on dial up with pings of 100ms plus it was sometimes like watching a flick book and at other playable one thing it definitely was was amazing those first few month of online gaming i will never forget.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It may be that "once an area is served by 75% fibre to the premises then no new copper-based services will be sold (but existing copper-based services will continue to work"? Or it may by that they are meaning "to the cabinet" rather than "to the home".

A huge amount of the UK has copper to the cabinet with no alternative. They're not about to turn it off and disconnect a huge amount of the population.

From the horses mouth -

2018 – Plans to retire the old telephone network within seven years are announced. This will see everyone in the UK upgraded to a digital phone line, laying the foundations for the future

2019 – Salisbury becomes the first Openreach Full Fibre city in the UK. The Wiltshire city has the fastest citywide network in the UK

2020-2023 – Openreach stops selling PSTN based copper products initially at an exchange level and then nationally. Openreach will adopt a phased approach to stop selling copper broadband and telephony products. From September 5th 2023, this will apply across the UK

2027 – Retiring the old analogue phone network. By this time, everyone in the UK will be upgraded to a digital phone line – which will use the broadband network to make calls in a similar way to other Voice Over Internet Protocol (VOIP) technologies like Skype, Facetime, and Microsoft Teams; enabling HD calls, improved functionality and allowing the UK to keep pace with the rest of the world, all while continuing to provide the reliability and reassurance of the traditional landline

https://www.openreach.com/news-and-opinion/2023/openreach-change-telephone-network

 

[Stu]

From the horses mouth -

2018 – Plans to retire the old telephone network within seven years are announced. This will see everyone in the UK upgraded to a digital phone line, laying the foundations for the future

2019 – Salisbury becomes the first Openreach Full Fibre city in the UK. The Wiltshire city has the fastest citywide network in the UK

2020-2023 – Openreach stops selling PSTN based copper products initially at an exchange level and then nationally. Openreach will adopt a phased approach to stop selling copper broadband and telephony products. From September 5th 2023, this will apply across the UK

2027 – Retiring the old analogue phone network. By this time, everyone in the UK will be upgraded to a digital phone line – which will use the broadband network to make calls in a similar way to other Voice Over Internet Protocol (VOIP) technologies like Skype, Facetime, and Microsoft Teams; enabling HD calls, improved functionality and allowing the UK to keep pace with the rest of the world, all while continuing to provide the reliability and reassurance of the traditional landline

https://www.openreach.com/news-and-opinion/2023/openreach-change-telephone-network

As you say though, that's PSTN. That's not about internet connections. That's analogue telephones.

There's actually nothing there that says there is a plan to make all cabinets FTTC.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

There are already numerous threads on the TT community boards about home alarms, emergency pendants etc not working using the digital phone lines (see adapter video below) i can see this becoming a big headache for those companies as it says below "It is NOT the voice providers responsibility to make sure third-party equipment is compatible."


Digital phone lines frequently asked questions
Will this effect telephone devices i use at home?

Every single voice copper-base telephone line will be affected, including care alarm lines, payment terminals, traffic light systems, payphone lines, emergency pendants, dialysis machines, telemetry devices, lift emergency lines, care home lines, doctors, hospitals, and any other service that uses a copper telephone line. Any equipment that runs these services must be tested by the equipment manufacturers, before December 2025, when traditional fixed copper-based telephone lines and calls will cease to exist.
Just to be clear - It is NOT the voice providers responsibility to make sure third-party equipment is compatible.

https://www.simpletelecoms.co.uk/Openreach-withdrawing-copper-based-telephone-services

 

[Clint]

Just think..when the power goes off,the copper phone lines still work. When it goes digital,they won't. If you're not online or on mobile,if you can get a signal you're isolated,stuck,in trouble or whatever if you need help. You can't contact anyone,discuss anything or get any news. Same with the tv...it'll be switched off when required.
I wonder about cars with an "Internet connection "...

 

[Chippy_Tea]

There's actually nothing there that says there is a plan to make all cabinets FTTC.

As it says below they can provide fibre broadband services to the entire country from just 1,000 ‘super digital exchanges’ this spells the beginning of the end for the remaining 4,600 exchanges used to support traditional copper based phone and broadband voice services.


The advent of tiny but powerful microprocessors and glass fibres, thinner than the width of a human hair, only need a tiny fraction of the space taken up by miles of copper wires and bulky racks of switching machinery to run the old copper based phone network or Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN).

This seismic shift means that today we’re able to provide fibre broadband services to the entire country from just 1,000 ‘super digital exchanges’ or Openreach Handover Points (OHPs).

Sadly, this spells the beginning of the end for the remaining 4,600 exchanges used to support traditional copper based phone and broadband voice services. And these copper customers are dwindling fast as people migrate to faster more efficient fibre

Openreach is now consulting with its communication provider (CP) customers – like Sky, Vodafone, TalkTalk and BT, who use our network to connect their own customers – about how to close these ‘legacy’ exchanges over the next decade or so.

This will be a major undertaking with several million services to be migrated, and the importance of ensuring vulnerable customers and the UK’s Critical National Infrastructure providers are protected along the way. So we’re planning it in stages – with the first 103 exchanges to close by December 2030. These have some of the highest running costs so there’s a clear advantage in targeting them first. Most of the remaining 4,500 exchanges will likely follow in the early 2030s.

Moving to this new digital world will ultimately benefit everybody - from CPs who will be able to serve their customers from fewer exchanges – helping to save costs through consolidation of equipment and reduced space and power requirements, to millions of end users who will benefit from fibre technology providing speeds up to 10x faster and with up to 80 percent fewer faults than traditional copper-based services.

But getting this done will require strong collaboration across industry, with regulator Ofcom, and government and that’s why this consultation is important as we work together to move the UK to a world class digital service.

https://www.openreach.com/news/the-final-call-for-the-traditional-telephone-exchange/#:~:text=So we're planning it,follow in the early 2030s.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Just think..when the power goes off,the copper phone lines still work. When it goes digital,they won't. If you're not online or on mobile,if you can get a signal you're isolated,stuck,in trouble or whatever if you need help. You can't contact anyone,discuss anything or get any news. Same with the tv...it'll be switched off when required.
I wonder about cars with an "Internet connection "...

This is a good point Clint as mentioned in post #33 a lot of people use the copper phone line for care alarm lines, payment terminals, traffic light systems, payphone lines, emergency pendants, dialysis machines, telemetry devices, lift emergency lines, care home lines etc they cannot risk these not working if FTTP fails.

 

[Clint]

I'm thinking more about information blackouts.

 

[Clint]

I understand the copper network is old and won't last. I don't understand the mass hysteria to get everyone on "ultra fast broadband blah blah " except if you live in the middle of nowhere then xxxx you!
But what about those living in remote areas? Perhaps the billions making telecom companies should dip into the profits and provide that service at any cost.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I understand the copper network is old and won't last. I don't understand the mass hysteria to get everyone on "ultra fast broadband blah blah "

The problem for those moving to FTTC (not FTTP) is the age and condition of the copper line, we had our line from post to house renewed a few years ago due to water getting into it caused by it rubbing on a neighbours extension roof when it was windy, the speeds and stability improved and when we moved to FTTC we got the full 60 Mbps others are not so lucky and as has been said above this can cause issues if your family use a lot of things that need a lot of bandwidth.

 

[jof]

Even when you have rural FTTP it doesn't always work.
At 'work' we have FTTP to the exchange. But that rural exchange only has a few copper cables to the nearest town.
And the upshot is we pay more for a fiber connection, but then have to claim back monthly from BT as it never reaches the advertised speed.
It's mental and an administrative PITA