Brewzilla Gen 4 advice and experiences

[jambop]

I work my recipes out myself. The gravity is within my margins. Do I need to know it to two decimal places. Nope.


It was a serious point and for the reason you mention I don't use it for mash temps

Do you know what you are saying? You have got it right but wrong you need to know the SG to THREE decimal places! For example a gravity of 1.044 to two decimal places is 1.04 the difference between the two interms of ABV finishing at 1.010 is the difference between 4.46 % and 3.96 % abv that is significant in my opinion.

 

[MashBag]

I know exactly what I am saying.

I don't need a hydrometer to know when my beer has finished fermentation.

Tbh I cannot remember the last time I used a hydrometer in beer.

 

[Twostage]

My hands can tell water temperature with 2 or 3 degrees. So it is probably experience.

I've recently found (because I do use 0.875g of Calcium Phaffaldehyde) that I am very close with my first chunk of whatever salt addition I'm measuring on the powder scale. The time before last, one of my guestimates was only about .003g out (obviously not good enough though )

 

[jambop]

I know exactly what I am saying.

I don't need a hydrometer to know when my beer has finished fermentation.

Tbh I cannot remember the last time I used a hydrometer in beer.

So mashing eff ...da
Starting gravity ... eh
Final gravity ... Waa
ABV ...meh
Temperature of anything... I burned my hand more with that than with that ergo that could be three degrees higher than that oowww!

Fair enough but really I want to know more about my beer and my process... each to there own as you say.

 

[MashBag]

Perhaps you reach a stage where you get comfortable with the art and the measurement becomes less important. I also have several brewing recipes I have done a few times. Ditto baking.

 

[Leard]

I'm still finding it impossible to maintain a stable mash temperature even when using the RAPT thermometer.

I've set my heating hysteresis to 0.3C, however when it gets to 66.6 (when the temperature is set to 67), the heat isn't turning on. In fact, it dropped quite below 67 before it finally turned on. I had to increase the temperature to actually get the heater working. This is without the PID.

Why is this so difficult? I got a BrewZilla because I hoped it would make the brewday easier compared to my old BIAB method. But the effort required with it just to achieve something basic as a stable mash temperature isn't making me think it was a worthwhile purchase.

I've got the 'allow temperature difference' set to 6C and the heating hysteresis set to 0.3C. I don't use the PID as I never calibrated it, and from what I've seen, most people seem to think it's better without anyway.

 

[Twostage]

I'm still finding it impossible to maintain a stable mash temperature even when using the RAPT thermometer.

I've set my heating hysteresis to 0.3C, however when it gets to 66.6 (when the temperature is set to 67), the heat isn't turning on. In fact, it dropped quite below 67 before it finally turned on. I had to increase the temperature to actually get the heater working. This is without the PID.

Why is this so difficult? I got a BrewZilla because I hoped it would make the brewday easier compared to my old BIAB method. But the effort required with it just to achieve something basic as a stable mash temperature isn't making me think it was a worthwhile purchase.

Don't give in

I assume you've got it set so that the RAPT probe is the 'master' in settings ?

Why have you got PID disabled ? Its a key part of keeping a stable mash temp.

Are you re-circulating ?

I have PID on, 0.3 hysteresis, heater 100%, pump 80%.

 

[Leard]

Yeah pump is on, even though I have to blow it every so often as it clogs up.

I read somewhere the PID is better off, although I'm having no luck with that so I'll try with it on. RAPT probe is set as the main one as well. It's suspended about halfway in the grain bed.

I've set the heater to 40-50%.

 

[Leard]

I'm currently trying to reach mash out temperature.

Heater is at 100%, PID is on. I've just watched it go all the way to 74.8c (target of 75), and it then drops all the way to 73.4 while the heater was on the entire time. Seriously, what the ****?

 

[Twostage]

I'm currently trying to reach mash out temperature.

Heater is at 100%, PID is on. I've just watched it go all the way to 74.8c (target of 75), and it then drops all the way to 73.4 while the heater was on the entire time. Seriously, what the ****?

I'm struggling to figure that out. I get slight overshoots rather than undershoots. Is 74.8 close enough ? Is it running a multi step profile ? You could skip to the next step if so.

 

[jambop]

These systems a finicky to say the least and you have to learn to drive them. There are several ways of improving the stability of mashing temperature. Now for me I am a hands on brewer and that means I do not use a program. I make temperature changes manually so what I do may not apply to a brewer who wants to walk away from the process.
Any way the first and I think imoprtant factor in getting stability is grain crush. I crush my grains at 1.6mm which is a course crush. This allows a high wort recirculation rate which give faster flow through the grain bed. Second don't use the top plate which is going to compress the grain bed and restrict flow. Three get a wort deflection plate which makes sure the wort from the grain basket has to flow over the temperature sensor. Four do not be afraid to give the grain bed a mix after every thirty mins of the mash. Five use a wort spreader on the recirculation tube. Six and maybe should have put this earlier measure the distance from the top of the grain basket to the top of the mash or better still use a piece of copper wire bent over the side of the basket so it just touches the mash surface. During mashing set the pump as fast as it will allow while maintaining this measurement.
My mash settings are PID off RAPT BT thermometer on 0.3 Hysterisis, 1 C allowed temp difference and the power set at 25% . Using these settings I find for a 66C mash my mash temperature cycles from 66.7C to 65.6C and back to 66.7C over about 5 minutes. It is not perfect but its is more than acceptable. When mashing out I change the allowed temp difference to 6C and increase the power to 80% until the temperature is near the mash out and the back it off to 40% for the mash out. To get to the boil I use 100% power and once boiling hold it thereeventually backing off to about 80% power.
Now about the course crush, do not worry about mashing efficiency being low. My last brew gave a 85% mash eff and 81% brewhouse eff . The notion that grains have to be ground fine for efficency is absolute nonsense the grains need only be lightly crushed I use 1.6mm and I am confident I could open that gap further and still get good efficieny.

 

[Mr & Mrs Smith]

@Ross1974

I've followed this thread about the brewzilla 4 from the start, 24 pages currently. Make your own mind up!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/brewzilla-gen4-discussion-tips-talk.702436/
It completely puts me off getting a model 4 of any size. The 3 and the clones don't seem to have the same issues.

I'd look out for a 65litre model 3 or a klarstein and then consider pimping it up with a smartpid, whirlpools etc and you'll learn with your system as you go.

The tech and ideas of the 4 are attractive but in practice it seems to be quite difficult.

I was tentatively thinking of purchasing a Gen 4, while the 3-1-1 wasn't too bad I didn't like the diameter of the unit, seems to compact the grain more. I have read all the posts on Homebrewtalk,, Reddit, and the American Home Brewers Association why anyone would bother, with all the trials and tribulations of the Brewzilla G4 is beyond me. However, I suspect that the cost is the determining factor, not the performance. Purely my own thoughts from the information gathered, I am sure some are happy with their purchase.

 

[The Baron]

I think you are listening too much to the first time users. It has to be used with more control than existing AIO's. Do not think that the Grainfather and Brew Monks etc did not have issues because they did.
It does take more time to get used to the unit which I have and it is up there with the rest and at a good price point. I had issues when I first got mine and that was because after watching the youtubers who were using it I was led to believe that you put it on full re-circ volume which no AIO does they all need to be adjusted for flow thats why they all have a tap on the re-circ.
Once you get the settings right it does need a grain crush that suits the machine as do all others too.
What exactly are you concerns?

 

[Mr & Mrs Smith]

I think you are listening too much to the first time users. It has to be used with more control than existing AIO's. Do not think that the Grainfather and Brew Monks etc did not have issues because they did.
It does take more time to get used to the unit which I have and it is up there with the rest and at a good price point. I had issues when I first got mine and that was because after watching the youtubers who were using it I was led to believe that you put it on full re-circ volume which no AIO does they all need to be adjusted for flow thats why they all have a tap on the re-circ.
Once you get the settings right it does need a grain crush that suits the machine as do all others too.
What exactly are you concerns?

I agree with you they will all have a breaking-in period but seeing all the negative posts about Brewzilla G4 and barely any about the other all-in-one vessels throws a shadow over the unit. I expect there are people who have bought the unit and persevered with it, not much else they can do after forking out their money. But there are plenty in all the posts I have read who have regretted buying it.

 

[The Baron]

Brewing is not Plug and Play and this system gives you more control over your mash especially if you use the additional thermometer probe which I would recommend.
Plenty other units do not give you the control over the mash because they just use a bottom sensor which can be way off as you are measuring the mash at the bottom near the heater but you think you are mashing @ 67c and chances are you are not as there is stratification in the mash so a second probe in the middle gives you a nearer temp to the figures you are looking at.
I would also recommend that as with all AIO's you mill your own grain to suit your system or at least use the same supplier for all your base malts as they all mill different and that is where some of the issue is.
Brewing is a craft which some brewers do not spend enough time to understand and more and more brewers are jumping straight into all grain with AIO systems and have not built up the knowledge needed. They are expecting a Plug and Play as it is becoming the norm in modern day life and brewing is not like that.

 

[Mr & Mrs Smith]

Brewing is not Plug and Play and this system gives you more control over your mash especially if you use the additional thermometer probe which I would recommend.
Plenty other units do not give you the control over the mash because they just use a bottom sensor which can be way off as you are measuring the mash at the bottom near the heater but you think you are mashing @ 67c and chances are you are not as there is stratification in the mash so a second probe in the middle gives you a nearer temp to the figures you are looking at.
I would also recommend that as with all AIO's you mill your own grain to suit your system or at least use the same supplier for all your base malts as they all mill different and that is where some of the issue is.
Brewing is a craft which some brewers do not spend enough time to understand and more and more brewers are jumping straight into all grain with AIO systems and have not built up the knowledge needed. They are expecting a Plug and Play as it is becoming the norm in modern day life and brewing is not like that.

We have been brewing on the Brewzilla 3-1-1 for just over two years, got that down to a fine art and we also have been crushing our own grain for that length of time. As for the temperature differences not just between the top and the bottom but around the circumference of the kettle differ but one doesn't need a plug in probe to check the temperature just a hand held probe to keep one aware of any temperature changes.
I found the best way to keep a constant temperature is to stir the mash while doughing in and keep stirring, make the mash as thin as possible by carrying out no sparge, and keep stirring until the starch has been converted and the mash remains at a constant temperature throughout. Also keep the return at full throttle. Which is another downside to the Brewzilla G4, the lack of dead space beneath the malt pipe and as I have read the throttle has to be choked back plus I just am not comfortable with the diameter of the unit.
I have used the Grainfather G40 a couple of times and it is just a breeze to use, that is why we don't see pages and pages of posts on how to use it.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I use a Gen 3.1 brewzilla, it has only been used in manual mode. if i want a mash temp of 68c i set it at 65c when it hits 68c i turn 1500w element off and just use the 900w one, as said above you have to learn the machine you need to know all it's little idosyncrisitys, in a nutshell all i am doing is biab with a recirc pump, nothing wrong with the brewzilla it's how you use it that matters

 

[Mr & Mrs Smith]

I use a Gen 3.1 brewzilla, it has only been used in manual mode. if i want a mash temp of 68c i set it at 65c when it hits 68c i turn 1500w element off and just use the 900w one, as said above you have to learn the machine you need to know all it's little idosyncrisitys, in a nutshell all i am doing is biab with a recirc pump, nothing wrong with the brewzilla it's how you use it that matters

I agree, that seems to be the problem with the Gen 4 Brewzilla, on reading all the posts there are plenty who moved up to the Gen 4 from the Gen 3 and are struggling to get it right.

 

[The Baron]

Your method is a work around and if it works for you do it but you should not be stirring the mash constantly also the flow has a tap for the throttling back with also a % of pump in the controls which tells you to adjust it to suit your mash.
Full throttle on virtually any machine will eventually give a rise to the volume in the mash tun.
I also have used many AIO's and they all need to be throttled back unless you have a very fluid grainbill.
I have no problems with my G4 apart from the initial first couple of brews.
You quote the Grainfather which has had many issues too in the past but as it has been going longer most have been ironed out but it will still overflow if you do not throttle the flow depending on the grainbill.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I use a Gen 3.1 brewzilla, it has only been used in manual mode. if i want a mash temp of 68c i set it at 65c when it hits 68c i turn 1500w element off and just use the 900w one, as said above you have to learn the machine you need to know all it's little idosyncrisitys, in a nutshell all i am doing is biab with a recirc pump, nothing wrong with the brewzilla it's how you use it that matters,