Brewzilla cooling and whirlpool

[KentishMan]

Hi folks,

I recently bought a Brewzilla gen 4 that came with an immersion chiller and whirlpool arm attachment.
For my first brew in the system things worked pretty well, I didn’t use the whirlpool arm on this first go, but the immersion chiller done a good job to clear the wort.
However, when I transferred to my FV a lot of the trub that had collected on the bottom plate flushed through to the FV.

For my next brew I am going to use the whirlpool arm, but I wanted to ask if people cool the wort with the chiller first, then whirlpool to collect the trub into a cone? And how long would you whirlpool to cooled wort for a decent cone? Brewing a dark beer next so it will be hard to see the results until drained.
I would imagine trying to whirlpool with the chiller in the wort would prevent decent circulation?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Immersion chillers work better if the wort is stirred during cooling (it brings fresh hot wort next to the chiller to be cooled, rather than leaving a barrier of cool wort next to the chiller) so I would use the whirlpool arm during cooling for that reason.

The chiller may impede the whirlpool, and removing the chiller will probably stir up the wort again, so once removed I would probably do another whirlpool.

I don't do a whirlpool, do don't know how long you need to do it. Probably not that long I imagine. A few minutes maybe

 

[MrJay83]

I use my whirlpool arm with the chiller. When I get to a few degrees over my desired temperature I remove the chiller and leave the whirlpool going for a few more minutes. Seems to work well for me.
For my next brew I'm going to flatten out the outlet end a bit (vertically) to try and get some more velocity out of it.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

Immersion chillers work better if the wort is stirred during cooling (it brings fresh hot wort next to the chiller to be cooled, rather than leaving a barrier of cool wort next to the chiller) so I would use the whirlpool arm during cooling for that reason.

The chiller may impede the whirlpool, and removing the chiller will probably stir up the wort again, so once removed I would probably do another whirlpool.

I don't do a whirlpool, do don't know how long you need to do it. Probably not that long I imagine. A few minutes maybe

This is what I used to do until I decided the whirlpool arm was only really good for scrap - I just couldn't get on with it.
I now whirlpool whith my mash paddle by hand and it works much better (I do this after cooling, or when hot if using my no-chill cube).

 

[Rwilts]

I don't chill. But I have also given up on the wirlepool arm and just use a paddle same as AnimatedGIF

 

[hoppyscotty]

I have the 3.1.1 version but still valid....I use the whirlpool arm during cooling and constantly during hopstand if doing that. Works very well in my experience but found in my last brew where I had lent our my whirlpool arm, that the record arm with the hose clamped to the rim so it is at an angle into the wort does almost as good a job of gathering up the hops into a nice cone.

The issue of stuff being transferred that is an issue with the false bottom. I find that though the whirlpool is successful and pulls all the hops into a nice cone as the wort level drops below the tip of the hop cone then some hops slip down the side of the cone and though the false bottom edge as its sealing with the side of the vessel is non existent. I've been thinking of ways I can seal around the edge of the face bottom but not come up with anything practical as yet. Even though some hop are sucked past the FB, its alot less hops than if you don't do a whirlpool.

Ultimately there is no harm done by some trub getting through.

 

[buddsy]

Last brew I whirl pooled during cooling and then for 15 minutes after followed by 15 mins no whirling to settle.

I have since read 4 mins whirl pooling should be enough.

I did add whole hops towards the end not in a spider and that does seem to work well as a filter bed allowing clear wort to go into the FV.

buddsy

 

[KentishMan]

Cheers guys, I tried a brew this afternoon and took your advice.
Temp dropped more quickly with the whirlpool arm stirring the wort.
I removed the chiller a few degrees above end temp, and continued the whirlpool for about another 6 or 7 mins, and this did a pretty good job, created a decent cone of trub, and most of the wort could be pumped into the FV in a pretty clear state.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Good to hear. Some people seem to complain that the power of the whirlpool is week but I don’t think that matters. A gentle circulation is all that is needed. Also to avoid pump blockage I let the wort settle from the boil after turning off the elements before turning on the pump. I’ve never had a blockage when I’ve done this even with very large late boils and/or hopstand additions and I never use a hop spider or hop bags. Every time I’ve used the pump during the boil I get a blockage unless I use a spider…which I won’t.

 

[MrJay83]

Also to avoid pump blockage I let the wort settle from the boil after turning off the elements before turning on the pump.

Haven't tried that method and it makes sense when you think about it. Cheers.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Every time I’ve used the pump during the boil I get a blockage unless I use a spider…which I won’t.

What is the objection to a spider? I hear a lot of people don't like them. I have one and I find it pretty handy (your opinion may differ). I'm just curious as to what you don't like about them.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

What is the objection to a spider? I hear a lot of people don't like them. I have one and I find it pretty handy (your opinion may differ). I'm just curious as to what you don't like about them.

I was indifferent to mine. They're a PITA to clean, that's for sure.

 

[Agentgonzo]

They're a PITA to clean, that's for sure.

I can agree with that. I was just curious as to whether there was anything more than this.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

I can agree with that. I was just curious as to whether there was anything more than this.

I'll be interested in other responses too. To be honest, this was enough for it to join the whirlpool arm in the shelf collecting dust

 

[buddsy]

Every time I’ve used the pump during the boil I get a blockage unless I use a spider

I didn't think you are meant to run the pump during the boil? The wort being too hot for the seals etc?

Why would you want to run your pump during boil?

What is the objection to a spider?

I think the flavour and aroma from the hops is mainly from its oils being released. I think the fine mesh on a spider restricts the oils from getting into the wort.

Full hops (opposed to pellets) acts as a good filter bed when you empty into your FV

buddsy

 

[Agentgonzo]

I think the fine mesh on a spider restricts the oils from getting into the wort.

Really? Oils are far smaller than the 400micron gaps in the spider mesh, so I don't see how the spider restricts the oils from getting into the wort. Can you elaborate?

Full hops (opposed to pellets) acts as a good filter bed when you empty into your FV

This is true, and it's one of the things I've missed when I use pellets instead of whole hops. But pellets are much easier to store (and easier to dispose of if using a spider than getting a big soggy mass out of the bottom of the kettle).

 

[buddsy]

Really? Oils are far smaller than the 400micron gaps in the spider mesh, so I don't see how the spider restricts the oils from getting into the wort. Can you elaborate?

I do understand what you are saying and your reasoning but Im only quoting what Ive read. I wonder if the hop material blocks the holes in the mesh as well then stopping the oil?

I dont know but I think Im correct in saying bags and spiders tend to reduce the amount of the oils compared to bunging directly into the wort...I stand to be corrected though

buddsy

 

[hoppyscotty]

What is the objection to a spider? I hear a lot of people don't like them. I have one and I find it pretty handy (your opinion may differ). I'm just curious as to what you don't like about them.

In my experience, and I know others are different, the hop spider just blocks. The mesh is too fine. If it’s blocking then you’re not getting utilisation from the hops. If you can get away with using it why would you?

I used to use it for a filter when pitching into the fermenter, but again it just blocked and filled with wort so just goes to show how restrictive the fine mesh is. I would use a bag over a spider but have found a method that works for me negating the need for a spider or bag. I would like the false bottom to totally seal against the kettle wall around its circumference to minimise hops sliding off the cone down the side of the false bottom but ultimately it’s not a lot of hops and generally settles on the base of the vessel. One of the advantages of the 3.1.1 having the pump inlet slightly raised above the base.

 

[MrJay83]

I give the spider the odd scrape on the inside with my paddle and lift/dunk it a few times. If a slight bit of matter is getting pushed through the mesh it doesn't bother me because the wort within it is definitely getting exchanged.

 

[Bogdweller]

My second brew with the Brewzilla 3.1.1 I used the immersion chiller with the whirlpool arm. I got the impression the flow wasnt too strong but the wort cooled quickly and the loose leaf hops I used in the whirlpool didnt cause any problems at all on the run off. I used the tap, not the pump to run off with a sieve which collected next to nothing and the final liquor was the clearest I have ever had.