Brewing my first beer for cask

[RoomWithABrew]

going to be brewing a beer that will go to a cask and be served direct from the barrel.

Seems clear to me the intent in paragraph one.
@peebee would be best not to infer race or origin by someones location. Born in the south of England and lived there 50 years. Lived close to Wales for many years as well and can remember when you had to pay to get in but it was free to get out ( which seemed fair).
Excellent points raised by @Northern_Brewer re licensing/ tax, be careful or lawful in regards to this.

 

[peebee]

@peebee would be best not to infer race or origin by someones location. Born in the south of England and lived there 50 years. ...

Boring!

I know that. But your profile says "Paremata, New Zealand", and that means you're a Kiwi ... and your weather is better than ours back here. And that guy on the "Homebrew Talk" forum, also from "Paremata, New Zealand" hasn't escaped my attention ... he's a Kiwi too!


Actually ... I was born in England, but my Mother (a true Kellett) insisted I'm Welsh. Which I hope everyone around here thinks too. Wales just lost to England in the rugby today, and if anyone around here figures I'm from England ... well, I'm in the river for sure.

 

[peebee]

... Excellent points raised by @Northern_Brewer re licensing/ tax, be careful or lawful in regards to this.

Too right! A few years ago I'd wander into my local "sport club" (okay, it was the RDA place) with bottles of me homebrew on occasional "social occasions" to share with staff, and even a "social" at an NHS place (that was my early low-alcohol attempt though). I only learnt later, that isn't strictly legal. I thought it was only illegal if money or some "service" or other changed hands or was connected in some way.

Not so, the law only allows you to drink home-brew in the home it was created (does it mean you're not allowed to take it on picnics and share with fellow homebrewers?). But the HMRC don't seem too interested if there's no monetary value connected (especially if there isn't any monetary value they can have a share of!): But that doesn't mean they won't take an interest and turn up things that they can take a share of!


I'd like anyone who can prove me wrong! But I'll need substantiated evidence, not personal opinions.

 

[jof]

I think peebee has the gist of it.
I interpret it as personal consumption at home by the brewer & direct family.
I guess it's still ok if you are a unofficial brew club (to share equipment) as chances are you take the wort home & that's where the fermentation happens.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

if anyone around here figures I'm from England ... well, I'm in the river for sure.

I'll let them know.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Cask beer should not be flat. It's full name is cask-conditioned beer - no different to what you've been doing with your naturally carbonated beer in a keg. B

If you re-read may original post I never said cask beer is flat..I know what cask beer is, I've been drinking it all my adult life.

The beer will not be served out of a hand pull/beer engine...the beer will be served simply from a tap so the beer might very well have some level of carbonation initially as a cask beer should, but that will very quickly dissipate and the beer will end up flat.

Also those traditionalists at a decent pub that does good cask beer might try well ask for a flat version of whatever beer they have on at that time and what they'll get is either a beer pulled from the hand pull with the sparkler removed or a beer from a jug that has been left on the side to set and the beer go flat. This works well for malty traditional British ale styles in my option, but I was not sure how well a more 'modern' style pale ale or IPA using brighter more citrusy and fruity hop varieties would turn out.

As I said I've been to many beer festivals where beer is served in this way and I don't particularly like the way the beer turns out (of course could always be the beer that is not so great) so wondering if there is anything I can do to counteract how the flavour of the beer is impacted when it is served flat and potentially warm as the beer wont be served form a cellar either and if we have a warm spell at the end of May might be served somewhere in the twenties degrees C.

As it happens over the weekend I visited a pub that was service Thornbridge Jaipur from the barrel, so was flat as a pancake, but it was served from the pub cellar so served at a normal cellar temp and it was utterly delicious, so I'm less concerned about how a hoppy 'modern' style Pale Ale/IPA will turn out being served this way...assuming of course, Thornbridge brew their cask Jaipur in the same way as their keg Jaipur.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I have lots of thoughts about recipes, but there's three rather important questions you need to answer before even start on this :

Are you registered with the Alcohol Wholesaler Registration Scheme (AWRS)?
Are you registered with HMRC for beer duty?
Are your premises where beer is being produced for sale to the public, registered with the local Environmental Health people?

Thanks, and good to pull up. I am in the very early stages of getting all this sorted...it's my 2024 project, but unlikely to all be sorted in time. I'm effectively contract brewing though another brewery. Not sorted out all the details yet but it'll all be above board.

Not a career change for me just a bit of fun. Doesn't seem much of a faff to be fully registered and set up and there are a number of local pubs around me that support local micro/nano breweries so can supply as and when suits me rather than being on the hook to supply x casks or kegs a month.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Too right! A few years ago I'd wander into my local "sport club" (okay, it was the RDA place) with bottles of me homebrew on occasional "social occasions" to share with staff, and even a "social" at an NHS place (that was my early low-alcohol attempt though). I only learnt later, that isn't strictly legal. I thought it was only illegal if money or some "service" or other changed hands or was connected in some way.

Not so, the law only allows you to drink home-brew in the home it was created (does it mean you're not allowed to take it on picnics and share with fellow homebrewers?). But the HMRC don't seem too interested if there's no monetary value connected (especially if there isn't any monetary value they can have a share of!): But that doesn't mean they won't take an interest and turn up things that they can take a share of!


I'd like anyone who can prove me wrong! But I'll need substantiated evidence, not personal opinions.

I have it on good authority from an acquaintance who works for HMRC (i.e. a chap down the pub) that they are not too interested in minor cases of home brewers sharing their beer or even supplying beer to an event like a one off beer festival. In fact he's taken a few bottles off me over the years...but that is not to say if it comes to their attention they wont act, so best not to plaster it all over social media if ever you are doing this. They certainly have better things to do and bigger fish to fry. Chasing a home brewer for a few quid duty on a cask or keg or two of beer is not a good use of their time when there are people and businesses that have been defrauding the government of millions during the great Furlough swindle during COVID.

At the end of the day its always your risk, but there are ways you can get your beer out there legally.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I have it on good authority from an acquaintance who works for HMRC (i.e. a chap down the pub) that they are not too interested in minor cases of home brewers sharing their beer or even supplying beer to an event like a one off beer festival. In fact he's taken a few bottles off me over the years...but that is not to say if it comes to their attention they wont act, so best not to plaster it all over social media if ever you are doing this. They certainly have better things to do and bigger fish to fry. Chasing a home brewer for a few quid duty on a cask or keg or two of beer is not a good use of their time when there are people and businesses that have been defrauding the government of millions during the great Furlough swindle during COVID.

Obviously nobody really cares about the no-homebrew-outside-your-house rule, but once you start using commercial packaging like 9g casks then it starts to look like commercial supply. And HMRC are probably the least of your worries - environmental health and licensing authorities are far more geared to prosecuting local one-man-bands, don't underestimate them, particularly if say someone fell ill after the event. It could just be an unclean portaloo, but you would end up being a prime suspect.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I’m not brewing the beer on my homebrew kit. It’s on a pilot system of an established brewery. Everything will be above board.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I’m not brewing the beer on my homebrew kit. It’s on a pilot system of an established brewery. Everything will be above board.

Sounds like a fun brewday.

 

[Steve.]

I have it on good authority from an acquaintance who works for HMRC (i.e. a chap down the pub) that they are not too interested in minor cases of home brewers sharing their beer or even supplying beer to an event like a one off beer festival. In fact he's taken a few bottles off me over the years...but that is not to say if it comes to their attention they wont act, so best not to plaster it all over social media if ever you are doing this. They certainly have better things to do and bigger fish to fry. Chasing a home brewer for a few quid duty on a cask or keg or two of beer is not a good use of their time when there are people and businesses that have been defrauding the government of millions during the great Furlough swindle during COVID.

At the end of the day its always your risk, but there are ways you can get your beer out there legally.

Seems like they aren’t going after the big fish either

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rs-halve-in-five-years?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[lancon]

I’m not brewing the beer on my homebrew kit. It’s on a pilot system of an established brewery. Everything will be above board.

If it's with established brewery then they will have to account for it, either charge you the duty or pay it themselves.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Not sure of the details yet. The opportunity arose and now I’m looking how to take advantage. It is all ultimately for fun but will give me a small taste for what commercial brewing is like. Know the landlords/landladies/bar managers for a few local pubs and bars and am always surprised at how willing they are to encourage me to brew beer for them and that they’d happily take beer from local small breweries over the more national brands. Seems around here at least, there is a demand and appetite for people to drink locally brewed beer.

When I say I’m brewing on a local brewers pilot kit it sounds more grand than it is. In reality it’s a small microbrewery established about 18 months ago by a merry band of retired home brewers so I’m basically brewing on their pilot kit, which is basically their old homebrew kit. Will be a fun day anyway I’m sure.