Bottling a Triple NEIPA

[BasementArtie]

No idea as I said it was a post off AHB, he did mention that the one with SMB gave of a slight sulpher taste.

Sorry I thought you were speaking in third person . Okay I'm now even more curious to know the amount as I'm detecting no sulfur smells at all coming from the ones I've opened however I am yet to open a 0.03g or 3ml solution SMB bottle. So that may change things.

 

[foxy]

Sorry I thought you were speaking in third person . Okay I'm now even more curious to know the amount as I'm detecting no sulfur smells at all coming from the ones I've opened however I am yet to open a 0.03g or 3ml solution SMB bottle. So that may change things.

Here is the page off AHB he does go on to say leaving little head space is the route he will be taking.
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/reducing-oxidation-while-bottling.102322/page-2#post-1568946

 

[JockyBrewer]

Sorry I thought you were speaking in third person . Okay I'm now even more curious to know the amount as I'm detecting no sulfur smells at all coming from the ones I've opened however I am yet to open a 0.03g or 3ml solution SMB bottle. So that may change things.

I've had sulphur from using SMB at bottling/kegging time before (at a rate of 0.2g per 18 litres of beer).

I've since found out that yeast activity will turn the metabisulphite into hydrogen sulphide, so if you still have yeast in solution (and potentially still working) you can end up with eggy beer.

 

[BasementArtie]

I've had sulphur from using SMB at bottling/kegging time before (at a rate of 0.2g per 18 litres of beer).

I've since found out that yeast activity will turn the metabisulphite into hydrogen sulphide, so if you still have yeast in solution (and potentially still working) you can end up with eggy beer.

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my thread

That is really interesting. In the 0.01g SMB bottles (500ml) this equates to 0.36g/18 Litre, in the 1ml solution it's at quantity of 0.27g/18 Litre so both at a higher rate than yours producing no eggy sulphurous smell. I wonder again if the minimal headspace is changing this or did you also trial it with 2-7mm headspace. I'm wondering now if and when I open the 0.03g (1.08g/18 Litre) and 3ml solutions SMB (0.81g/18 Litre) bottle I'll get a more distinct sulphur smell.

There may be some other variable though right? I.e. type of yeast, style of beer, how large your dry hop was (12g/L), how long after fermentation had finished you bottled, had fermentation 100% finished. Despite these it is odd you experienced sulphur smells at a lower administration rate.

I guess this kind of reinforces why I've done this experiment based on my own equipment and methods as outcomes seem very different from brewer to brewer.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my thread

That is really interesting. In the 0.01g SMB bottles (500ml) this equates to 0.36g/18 Litre, in the 1ml solution it's at quantity of 0.27g/18 Litre so both at a higher rate than yours producing no eggy sulphurous smell. I wonder again if the minimal headspace is changing this or did you also trial it with 2-7mm headspace. I'm wondering now if and when I open the 0.03g (1.08g/18 Litre) and 3ml solutions SMB (0.81g/18 Litre) bottle I'll get a more distinct sulphur smell.

There may be some other variable though right? I.e. type of yeast, style of beer, how large your dry hop was (12g/L), how long after fermentation had finished you bottled, had fermentation 100% finished. Despite these it is odd you experienced sulphur smells at a lower administration rate.

I guess this kind of reinforces why I've done this experiment based on my own equipment and methods as outcomes seem very different from brewer to brewer.

As I understand it the problem comes when the yeast are still active. I know that one batch I had an issue with I had put into keg quite quickly after fermentation seemed to have stopped (no dry hop), so it's quite possible there were still some longer chained sugars being fermented.

Another batch was bottled, with the SMB added with priming sugar to a bottling bucket, and a 'normal' amount of headspace left. I don't have notes of how soon post fermentation that was done.

I did other batches without any issue, but basically I gave up with it as the risk of destroying a batch with sulphur was far greater than the benefit I could get via other means.

 

[Neale]

Thought this might be of interest on this thread. I did a test a few months ago with bottling a NEIPA with Daraform, (oxygen scavenging) caps and standard caps with and without large headspace in clear bottles.

If your interested I posted lots of pictures over time on homebrewtalk.com the thread is here

I filled three bottles as follows, unfortunately the bottles are not all the same shape but its what I had.

Bottle 1 - Filled using filling stick and left the usual headspace - capped using a standard cap
Bottle 2 - Filled using filling stick and left the usual headspace - capped using a Oxygen Scavenging cap
Bottle 3 - Filled using filling stick and then topped up to a few mm from the top - capped using a Oxygen Scavenging cap

For quick reference here are the first and last pictures.

Day 1 Picture

3 and a bit months after bottling

The bottles where stored in darkness throughout and spent most of their time in my beer fridge at 4°C.

Its fairly clear that bottles 1 & 2 have oxidised compared to bottle 3

When I opened bottle 1 and bottle 3 a couple of weekends ago there was definitely a difference although not a huge one. Bottle 3 had more aroma and maybe tasted a bit more hoppy but other than that no off flavours or anything, I did think that they are maybe all a bit past their best now though.

Next time I do a similar beer I will try minimal headspace with and without a Daraform cap to see if the Daraform cap really makes any difference. I think from the experiment above the Daraform cap on bottle 2 hasn't made any difference compared to bottle 1.

Since doing this experiment I am always filling with the filling stick then topping up from a measuring cylinder to about 3mm from the top. I have not had any bottle explode which I have heard can be a problem.

But a word of warning - On the other thread Gnomebrewer put three glass bottles topped to the brim with cold water in the fridge, then allowed them to warm up to 21°C and eventually all 3 bottle broke due to expansion of the water. So either keep the bottles cold after capping or make sure that there is always a 3mm gap.

 

[BasementArtie]

Hello French Open, Euros, Test Cricket Fans,

So we're onto day 24 and 1 day in the fridge and we're looking good. The carb was near perfect I think I'm going to fridge them tomorrow or Monday!

So the beer didn't have much smell because I poured into an English hybrid/Guinness pint glass so I'm probably the only person who does this I poured it into a teku. So it had Simcoe cat **** and I think the verdant yeast produces maybe too much vanilla in smell and flavour but that's besides the point. We are NOT oxidised YET!

Next time I do this recipe 1) not going tipa going 8% dipa 2) no Simcoe 3) probably swap out verdant for Nottingham dry yeast (however this won't be anytime soon).

Let me know your thoughts? I thought I'd be brown and purple by this point? Did I not extract enough hop oils during boil and flame out/ dry hop to produce oxidation? I believe I saw something about using 300g hops per 5gal/19L instead of 600g hops per 5gal/19L reduces oxidations and I was closer to the former.

 

[BasementArtie]

On day 27 I popped them all in the fridge at 1.5C to pressseeeerveeeee these boys, except 5 of which I kept out at room temp for research purposes (1 of each experimental variable).

So today's is a day 27 1 day fridge and the first no SMB bottle since the first one I tried at day 5. The smell of the juice and hops was more present than the 0.01g and 1ml SMB bottles and the flavour is much more vibrant and "fresh" which very much surprised me, however weirdly as I'd expect the opposite again this one had less carbonation.

 

[BasementArtie]

Day 31 and England can't even beat Scotland! So this beer is on which was fridged on day 27 has been in the fridge for 4 days.

So first things first, I went into this quasi-experiment expecting the higher SMB quantities to cause less carbonation (especially with a high percentage ABV). So this bottle was a 0.03g SMB bottle the highest quantity of any variable and as you can see the carb can't be contained by the glass . Can someone explain to me how tired yeast performed better with less O2 and a substance proported to cause yeast stalling?

In smell I was still getting those glorious tropical apricot and vanilla notes however with this bottle I was getting a very minimal undertone of sulfur so maybe the quantity was too high for bottle conditioning. The flavour not too disimilar to the smell tropical juicy thick and tasty which an alcoholic edge, I don't know if this related but the SMB bottle have had more of an alcoholic burst than the two no SMB bottles I've had. Regardless for day 31 I'm extremely happy and will happily continue to drink this luck ridden brew of mine.

Again don't be fooled by the pictures it's pretty much identical to the ones I've opened before the lighting and my phone are **** in the house and give random results.

 

[BasementArtie]

Day 27 8day fridge and these carb levels are hit and miss. No colour change no sulfur smell or taste and this being the second highest SMB dosage that's great news (3ml solution bottle). However if the the no SMB bottle that is currently sitting at room temp with the 4 other variables isn't oxidised when I crack it then I think I'll skip the SMB and just fill high with heavily hopped beers. I'm so surprised I'm not drinking some from brown purple skunk cardboard water as my methods are extremely basic. We sometimes win, unless you're Scotland at the euros!

 

[chillipickle]

every one gets lucky once n a life time :p

 

[BasementArtie]

Just a quick update today. 1ml/SMB solution Bottle 28days Carb time and 18days in the fridge. There was no difference IMO apart from what I believe to be a running theme the SMB solution bottles have struggled to carb (as quickly..maybe it's a time thing) as the powdered SMB and no SMB bottles. Good thing for me to remember if I ever use SMB again, however, that may be unlikely as it seems like currently filling the bottles to the top is the job ticker!

Only the last 5 bottles to go (one of each variable) sitting conditioning at 46 days and I'll crack them soon periodically leaving the no SMB til last. Hopefully to no oxidisation.

 

[Braindead]

every one gets lucky once n a life time :p
View attachment 49517

Ive been trying to get the milky looking neipa for years and never nailed it yet

 

[BasementArtie]

Ive been trying to get the milky looking neipa for years and never nailed it yet

I was wondering how it looks like literal orange juice! So opaque!!

 

[BasementArtie]

52days and 1 day in the fridge.

This was the 1ml SMB solution. So 1) it's dark and grey outside and I found it hard to take picture of to truly reflect the colour 2) the beer has changed in flavour slightly due to longer conditioning.

So I think this has got a little darker but it was extremely hard to tell as I haven't see it in this kind of light before. Flavour is very much more alcohol forward now!

My next one I'll try to capture better on my new non-knackered phone!

 

[BasementArtie]

61 days in total! Double whammy today! First two picture are the 0.01g SMB (3 days in fridge) and the second two are the 3ml solution (2 days in fridge). No oxidation at all. If anything both take and smell better than ever. This may be the placebo effect as I haven't had one in a while and I'm cooking a BBQ but seriously no detrimental effect yet! Go figure! However I think as it has done all a long either the SMB in some bottles, filling high or the alcohol strength have caused some to delay carbonation massive, these two were carbed but not hugely. Only two more bottles to go! The most SMB Vs nothing but bottling high! Let's see how it goes.

 

[BasementArtie]

Day 69 (2 days in fridge). Not much else to say but the 3ml SMB solution was still great. Again not completely carbed as I've had issue all along. But flavours great and smell is great. It's such a shame I only have one left (no SMB so the real test). I don't know what I have done right but this bottled triple NEIPA has not had a single sign of oxidation . I personally thing it's to do with bottling high.

 

[BasementArtie]

On to the last one! I know you're all bored because nothing has happened. I'm sorry to inform you nothing has changed there.

Last bottle no SMB just filled high day 76 (9 days in fridge). More carbonation. More Hop and stone fruit smell. More alcoholic taste but more fruity flavours. The two no SMB bottles were the best. No oxidation in any bottle and I truly believe it's all down to just filling high not the SMB. I think going forward I will just fill high.

Considering I'm new to brewing with no fancy equipment with basic methods and bottling a NEIPA is supposedly impossible, I am truly happy and have enjoyed drinking this bad boy!

 

[sifty]

Definitely not bored. Was looking at a NEIPA but deterred by the 'cannot bottle due to oxidation' advice. (I only bottle).

Cheers for the info...

 

[BasementArtie]

Sorry guys to reboot an old thread (of mine) but I brewed a Session Hazy IPA using the same process (no method of O2 avoidance other than being careful), bottled filling normal Vs filling high both with no SMB in 450ml and 500ml bottles (4 variables) and I've just crack the first bottle (albeit too early) and it's delicious and hoppy like Amarillo + Citra Dry Hopped IPA should be. Lets see how this one does over time.