Belgian Beer - Recipe check and advice

[-Bezza-]

This is where I'm up to. Even taking out 500g of the Pale Malt still has the yeast topping out at 11%. Saying 72.5EBC.

I need to tinker with water volumes and profile.

Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​	Volume​
5.50 kg​	Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (5.5 EBC)​	Grain​	1​	68.3 %​	3.59 L​
0.50 kg​	Aromatic Malt (51.2 EBC)​	Grain​	2​	6.2 %​	0.33 L​
0.50 kg​	Biscuit Malt (45.3 EBC)​	Grain​	3​	6.2 %​	0.33 L​
0.35 kg​	Melanoiden Malt (39.4 EBC)​	Grain​	4​	4.3 %​	0.23 L​
0.20 kg​	Oats, Flaked (2.0 EBC)​	Grain​	5​	2.5 %​	0.13 L​

Mash Steps

Name​	Description​	Step Temperature​	Step Time​
Protein Rest​	Add 21.89 L of water at 53.4 C​	50.0 C​	30 min​
Saccharification​	Heat to 68.9 C over 15 min​	68.9 C​	420 min​
Mash Out​	Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min​	75.6 C​	10 min​

• Sparge Water Acid: None
• Fly sparge with 17.74 L water at 75.6 C
• Add water to achieve boil volume of 29.06 L
• Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.055 SG

Boil Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​	Volume​
25.00 g​	Perle [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min​	Hop​	6​	20.1 IBUs​	-​
25.00 g​	Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 20.0 min​	Hop​	7​	8.1 IBUs​	-​
10.00 g​	Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min​	Hop​	8​	2.0 IBUs​	-​
1.00 kg​	Candi Sugar, Dark [Boil] [Boil for 15 min](450.0 EBC)​	Sugar​	9​	12.4 %​	0.63 L​

• Estimated Post Boil Vol: 26.56 L and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.094 SG

Cool and Transfer Wort

• Cool wort to fermentation temperature
• Transfer wort to fermenter
• Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 19.00 L

Pitch Yeast and Measure Gravity and Volume
Fermentation Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​	Volume​
2.0 pkg​	Belgian Ale (Mangrove Jack's #M41)​	Yeast​	10​	-​	-​

• Measure Actual Original Gravity _______ (Target: 1.094 SG)
• Measure Actual Batch Volume _______ (Target: 19.00 L)

Fermentation

• 09 Mar 2021 - Primary Fermentation (4.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
• 13 Mar 2021 - Secondary Fermentation (10.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
• 
  

Dry Hop and Bottle/Keg

• Measure Final Gravity: _________ (Estimate: 1.012 SG)
• Date Bottled/Kegged: 23 Mar 2021 - Carbonation: Keg with 0.86 bar
• Age beer for 30.00 days at 18.3 C
• 22 Apr 2021 - Drink and enjoy!

 

[Eoink]

Thanks man.
Worked really well. The body was spot on. I didn't add any oats to the dubbel and regretted it. My only regret on the quad was not adding rice hulls, the mash was thick and my robrew pump couldn't get enough to circulate properly.

 

[Eoink]

Also bought two French wine cask staves, chopped them up, steamed and cooled them and aged half of the quad on them for 5 months. I'd highly recommend it. Cheaper than oak spirals too.

 

[-Bezza-]

Hmm, I hadn't thought about adding a bit of oak. I've got some BBQ smoking chips that would do the job.

Getting very far from a Belgian beer here!!

 

[Eoink]

I dunno, did you ever try any of the Pannepot beers?

 

[Eoink]

This one is aged in Bordeaux barrels

 

[strange-steve]

It sounds to me like it's getting a little overly complicated. Personally I would lose the oats and a couple of those specialty malts, maybe add a touch of special B, and skip the oak chips. Regarding candi sugar, I would recommend making your own rather than buying that candi rock stuff. It's incredibly simple to make and (particularly if you're going for a dark candi sugar) it'll give a much better flavour and colour.

 

[Eoink]

Cool, never even thought of doing that.

 

[-Bezza-]

It sounds to me like it's getting a little overly complicated. Personally I would lose the oats and a couple of those specialty malts, maybe add a touch of special B, and skip the oak chips. Regarding candi sugar, I would recommend making your own rather than buying that candi rock stuff. It's incredibly simple to make and (particularly if you're going for a dark candi sugar) it'll give a much better flavour and colour.

I've already ruled out the oak chips - I remember some oaked ale I brewed a while back and it was pretty horrid.

Which malts are you suggesting dropping and why?

 

[strange-steve]

Which malts are you suggesting dropping and why?

I think the inverse is a better question when formulating a recipe, why is each ingredient there? I would probably drop either the aromatic or melanodin, reduce or remove the biscuit and add a touch of Special B, to my taste the maltiness from a dark Belgian is more of a deep fruitiness than toasty/biscuity. Of course it's your recipe and this is only my opinion, but when you see recipes for many of the great dark Belgian beers they're usually very simple.

 

[-Bezza-]

I think the inverse is a better question when formulating a recipe, why is each ingredient there? I would probably drop either the aromatic or melanodin, reduce or remove the biscuit and add a touch of Special B, to my taste the maltiness from a dark Belgian is more of a deep fruitiness than toasty/biscuity. Of course it's your recipe and this is only my opinion, but when you see recipes for many of the great dark Belgian beers they're usually very simple.

Reason was:
Aromatic - Maltiness
Biscuit - Caramel notes
Melanoidin - Going spare from a 500g bag, maltiness and depth

I was planning on using Belgian Pale Malt, so already a maltier flavour, meaning the Aromatic can drop out and I'll keep the Melanoidin as I'll have it. You're right that I want a deep fruity maltiness overall, so happy to can the biscuit. I'm still tempted to keep the 200g oats to give a bit of body however.

How much Special B would you suggest with 5.5kg Pale and .35kg Melanoidin?

And happy to knock up my own dark candi.

 

[samale]

That's not a bad guide that I have been reading up on
https://beerandbrewing.com/make-your-best-belgian-dark-strong-ale/Personally I have not used molasses but I would listen to Steve advice. Keep it simple. Maybe go a mixture of dark Candi and normally sugar to pump the Abv range. This is a style I plan to visit soon so keep me updated.

 

[-Bezza-]

That's not a bad guide that I have been reading up on
https://beerandbrewing.com/make-your-best-belgian-dark-strong-ale/Personally I have not used molasses but I would listen to Steve advice. Keep it simple. Maybe go a mixture of dark Candi and normally sugar to pump the Abv range. This is a style I plan to visit soon so keep me updated.

A useful read - I hadn't thought much about the fermentation profile so that's food for thought. This is starting to get technical - no bad thing!

500g molasses + 500g home-made past-amber candi might be fun. I would like that bitter-sweet taste but without introducing anything overly smokey so that dark molasses and deep caramel might balance nicely.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

The best Belgian beers mostly use a fairly simple grain bill, simple hop additions, some nice Belgian candi sugar, and some nice Belgian yeast. Each of these contributes to the flavour and all of them will be overpowered by strong flavours like molasses if overdone.

If it’s a Belgian style beer you want then my advice would be to (for now) drop the molasses and simplify the grain bill, as advised by @strange-steve

If you do decide to use molasses then do note that very little packs a huge punch and use just a little. I think if you use 500g you’ll taste nothing else in this beer.

 

[-Bezza-]

This is where I'm up to, although I'll try to make candi sugar that's not quite as dark as this.

Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​	Volume​
6.00 kg​	Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (5.5 EBC)​	Grain​	1​	78.9 %​	3.91 L​
0.35 kg​	Melanoiden Malt (39.4 EBC)​	Grain​	2​	4.6 %​	0.23 L​
0.20 kg​	Oats, Flaked (2.0 EBC)​	Grain​	3​	2.6 %​	0.13 L​

Mash Steps

Name​	Description​	Step Temperature​	Step Time​
Protein Rest​	Add 20.58 L of water at 53.4 C​	50.0 C​	30 min​
Saccharification​	Heat to 68.9 C over 15 min​	68.9 C​	420 min​
Mash Out​	Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min​	75.6 C​	10 min​

• Sparge Water Acid: None
• Fly sparge with 18.54 L water at 75.6 C
• Add water to achieve boil volume of 29.06 L
• Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.051 SG

Boil Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​	Volume​
25.00 g​	Perle [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min​	Hop​	4​	20.7 IBUs​	-​
25.00 g​	Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 20.0 min​	Hop​	5​	8.3 IBUs​	-​
0.25 Items​	Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)​	Fining​	6​	-​	-​
10.00 g​	Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min​	Hop​	7​	2.0 IBUs​	-​
1.00 kg​	Candi Sugar, Dark [Boil] [Boil for 15 min](541.8 EBC)​	Sugar​	8​	13.2 %​	0.63 L​
0.05 kg​	Molasses [Boil] [Boil for 15 min](157.6 EBC)​	Sugar​	9​	0.7 %​	0.04 L​

• Estimated Post Boil Vol: 26.56 L and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.090 SG

 

[samale]

Personally I will drop the oats and include special B. What yeast are you planning on using.

 

[-Bezza-]

Personally I will drop the oats and include special B. What yeast are you planning on using.

MJ41 is top of the list at the moment.

Spicy and phenolic, this yeast emulates the intensity and complexity of some of the best monastic breweries in Belgium, high attenuation and alcohol tolerance allows you to brew a huge range of Belgian beers.

AROMA CHARACTERISTICS: This yeast develops ripe fruit, especially plum like esters during fermentation which are prominent in the finished beer, it will also show a lightly balanced phenolic character.

FLAVOUR/MOUTHFEEL CHARACTERISTICS: Beers fermented with this yeast exhibit excellent classic Belgian ale flavour, clove hints with a multitude of fruit esters, alcohol and banana character.

HIGHER ALCOHOL BEERS: High alcohol beers are this strains bread and butter, with a high alcohol tolerance of 12% ABV, strong beers just create excellent flavour and aroma characteristics.

 

[chthon]

MJ41 is top of the list at the moment.

Spicy and phenolic, this yeast emulates the intensity and complexity of some of the best monastic breweries in Belgium, high attenuation and alcohol tolerance allows you to brew a huge range of Belgian beers.

AROMA CHARACTERISTICS: This yeast develops ripe fruit, especially plum like esters during fermentation which are prominent in the finished beer, it will also show a lightly balanced phenolic character.

FLAVOUR/MOUTHFEEL CHARACTERISTICS: Beers fermented with this yeast exhibit excellent classic Belgian ale flavour, clove hints with a multitude of fruit esters, alcohol and banana character.

HIGHER ALCOHOL BEERS: High alcohol beers are this strains bread and butter, with a high alcohol tolerance of 12% ABV, strong beers just create excellent flavour and aroma characteristics.

But make sure to take your time to ferment with it. I get an average attenuation of 92% with it on blond beers.

 

[-Bezza-]

But make sure to take your time to ferment with it. I get an average attenuation of 92% with it on blond beers.

What fermentation profile would you suggest? And 1 pack or 2? What ABV do you get - Beersmith is saying 11% max but I've seen others say as high as 14%.

I've also read up a bit on Special B and agree it has a place in this beer. So here's version whatever of the recipe:

Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​	Volume​
6.00 kg​	Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (5.5 EBC)​	Grain​	1​	78.9 %​	3.91 L​
0.35 kg​	Melanoiden Malt (39.4 EBC)​	Grain​	2​	4.6 %​	0.23 L​
0.20 kg​	Special B Malt (354.6 EBC)​	Grain​	3​	2.6 %​	0.13 L​

Mash Steps

Name​	Description​	Step Temperature​	Step Time​
Protein Rest​	Add 20.58 L of water at 53.4 C​	50.0 C​	30 min​
Saccharification​	Heat to 68.9 C over 15 min​	68.9 C​	420 min​
Mash Out​	Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min​	75.6 C​	10 min​

• Sparge Water Acid: None
• Fly sparge with 18.54 L water at 75.6 C
• Add water to achieve boil volume of 29.06 L
• Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.051 SG

Boil Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​	Volume​
25.00 g​	Perle [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min​	Hop​	4​	20.7 IBUs​	-​
25.00 g​	Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 20.0 min​	Hop​	5​	8.4 IBUs​	-​
0.25 Items​	Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)​	Fining​	6​	-​	-​
10.00 g​	Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min​	Hop​	7​	2.0 IBUs​	-​
1.00 kg​	Candi Sugar, Dark [Boil] [Boil for 15 min] (homemade)​	Sugar​	8​	13.2 %​	0.63 L​
0.05 kg​	Molasses [Boil] [Boil for 15 min](157.6 EBC)​	Sugar​	9​	0.7 %​	0.04 L​

 

[samale]

What fermentation profile would you suggest? And 1 pack or 2? What ABV do you get - Beersmith is saying 11% max but I've seen others say as high as 14%.

I've also read up a bit on Special B and agree it has a place in this beer. So here's version whatever of the recipe:

Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​	Volume​
6.00 kg​	Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (5.5 EBC)​	Grain​	1​	78.9 %​	3.91 L​
0.35 kg​	Melanoiden Malt (39.4 EBC)​	Grain​	2​	4.6 %​	0.23 L​
0.20 kg​	Special B Malt (354.6 EBC)​	Grain​	3​	2.6 %​	0.13 L​

Mash Steps

Name​	Description​	Step Temperature​	Step Time​
Protein Rest​	Add 20.58 L of water at 53.4 C​	50.0 C​	30 min​
Saccharification​	Heat to 68.9 C over 15 min​	68.9 C​	420 min​
Mash Out​	Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min​	75.6 C​	10 min​

• Sparge Water Acid: None
• Fly sparge with 18.54 L water at 75.6 C
• Add water to achieve boil volume of 29.06 L
• Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.051 SG

Boil Ingredients

Amt​	Name​	Type​	#​	%/IBU​	Volume​
25.00 g​	Perle [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min​	Hop​	4​	20.7 IBUs​	-​
25.00 g​	Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 20.0 min​	Hop​	5​	8.4 IBUs​	-​
0.25 Items​	Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)​	Fining​	6​	-​	-​
10.00 g​	Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min​	Hop​	7​	2.0 IBUs​	-​
1.00 kg​	Candi Sugar, Dark [Boil] [Boil for 15 min] (homemade)​	Sugar​	8​	13.2 %​	0.63 L​
0.05 kg​	Molasses [Boil] [Boil for 15 min](157.6 EBC)​	Sugar​	9​	0.7 %​	0.04 L​

Looks a winner to me