Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

[Argentum]

Fortunately for you (I hope), is the generally accepted fact that yeast are the final arbiter of "finished" beer pH. But many yeasts can't survive at much below about 3.2 pH. If you hit a typical FG with respect to your OG, then we must presume that your yeast were not killed off by low pH.

Unless we are talking a "sour", most finished beer falls in at between 3.8 and 4.6 pH. For reference, Pepsi and Coke weigh in at about pH 2.54 (from memory).

 

[Argentum]

High levels of hops can leave me with an acid stomach at night.

 

[Lee Brown]

Ah, that's reassuring. Yeah it pretty much hit its FG. I think I was a couple of points off. It was a low ABV beer and started off at 1.037 and finished at 1.011. It might be the clash with the wine I had afterwards then! In my head I had over-acidified the beer and therefore I was drinking a phosphoric acid shandy!

I'll keep a bottle of Gaviscon handy, just in case.

 

[Lee Brown]

On another note, this beer has more hop bitterness than aroma, despite 5 days with plenty of dry hops. I’m thinking of trying more CaCl and bit less S04 next time (as per @Argentum recommendation) and then lemon, lime and orange peel for 5 mins of boil - plus 50g cascade and 60g centennial dry hop for 4 days - for next brew.

 

[Lee Brown]

I’m also going to use a yeast that gives off more of a fruity/tropical profile this time too.

 

[johncrobinson]

Re:> Lee Brown. I also suffer from excess acid esp with cider,But wine will also cause it, I used to carry packets of Rennie around whenever i went for a pint.
The answer for me was Ranatadine,One wee tablet before going out and no more problems with acid.Lasts for 12hrs.

I have been checked out and dont have an ulcer.

 

[Lee Brown]

Quick update: I decided to make a NEIPA beer. I added 7.5Mls of 75% Phosphoric acid to my water and the Salifert test told me that I had 18ppm residual alkalinity. I left my Sulphate as it is, as it is around 110ppm anyway, and added 3.5mgs of CaCl to get 190ppm. I added 1 Campden tab to 32.5l of my water.

My mash runnings, after 35mins appeared to suggest I was bang on for PH. I added some lemon, lime and orange peel in last 8 mins of boil. I made a yeast starter the day before with WLP067, Coastal Haze yeast. It's now 2 days into fermentation (19c) and going well, so I have added 50g of Cascade. I will take that out 3 days time and add 50g of Centennial for another 3 days. Then finally, I will add 50g of Mosaic and of fermentation for a few days and then cold crash for 24 hours before bottling.

I will let you know how it turned out in a few weeks.

 

[Argentum]

If 7.5 mL of 75% Phosphoric Acid reduced 32.5 Liters of your water to 18 ppm alkalinity, then working things backwards indicates that your waters alkalinity is pretty close to 160 ppm. Which testing source came closest to this value for you? Meaning here: Salifert, Murphy's corrected go at it, and your regional water authoritys report.

This does seem to verify that Murphy's has it all wrong for 75% Phosphoric Acid.

 

[Argentum]

Several variables which leave wiggle room on the 160 ppm alkalinity assessment are as follows:

1) Is your 75% Phosphoric acid actually 75.00%?
2) Did you treat exactly 32.5 Liters?
3) Is the Sailifert result of 18 ppm remaining alkalinity spot on?
4) Did you add precisely 7.5 mL of your nominally purported to be 75% Phosphoric Acid?

Deviations within any or all of the above could mean that your water has something other than 160 ppm alkalinity. But you are on track to getting it nailed down.

 

[Argentum]

I read back through the posts and it looks like Murphy's wins with 161 ppm. The water authority said 177 ppm (216 ppm as bicarb).

PS: I've refined 75% Phosphoric Acid a tad, to 12.08 mEq/mL. (where formerly I suggested using 12.1 mEq/mL)

PPS: And I now suggest that to hit ~5.4 pH one simply target leaving 12 ppm of alkalinity behind, and skip the former multiplication by 0.90 kludge adjustment factor thing altogether.

 

[Lee Brown]

Murphy's were spot on. They stated 161ppm

 

[Argentum]

More refinement for 75% phosphoric acid with regard to neutralizing alkalinity using milliequivalents:

To hit 5.4 pH : Leave 10 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 12.26 mEq/mL as the strength of the 75% phosphoric acid.
To hit 5.5 pH : Leave 12 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 12.31 mEq/mL as the strength of the 75% phosphoric acid.
To hit 5.6 pH : Leave 15 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 12.37 mEq/mL as the strength of the 75% phosphoric acid.
To hit 5.7 pH : Leave 18 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 12.44 mEq/mL as the strength of the 75% phosphoric acid.

Example for 32.5 Liters of 161 ppm alkalinity water, with a target of 5.7 pH
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
161 ppm - 18 ppm = 143 ppm (mg/mL) of alkalinity required to be removed

MW of CaCO3 = 100.0869 g/mol = 100.0869 mg/mmol
CaCO3 valence = 2
Eq Wt of CaCO3 = MW/valence = 100.0869/2 = 50.04345 g/Eq = 50.04345 mg/mEq

143 mg/L / 50.04345 mg/mEq = 2.8575 mEq/L of alkalinity (as CaCO3)

2.8575 mEq/L x 32.5 L = 92.869 mEq's of alkalinity to be removed

92.869 mEq / 12.44 mEq/mL (at pH 5.70) = 7.47 mL of 75% phosphoric Acid to be added

It turns out that for "weak acids" an acids strength (as measured in mEq/mL) varies with the target pH. As you attempt to drive the pH down more, the strength of the acid is reduced.

As an aside, AMS/CRS is made from blending two "strong acids" so its strength of ~3.66 mEq/mL remains pretty much unchanged with regard to ones target pH.

 

[Argentum]

For 88% Lactic acid use these mEq/mL values:

To hit 5.4 pH : Leave 10 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 11.45 mEq/mL as the strength of the 88% Lactic Acid
To hit 5.5 pH : Leave 12 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 11.52 mEq/mL as the strength of the 88% Lactic Acid
To hit 5.6 pH : Leave 15 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 11.57 mEq/mL as the strength of the 88% Lactic Acid
To hit 5.7 pH : Leave 18 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 11.61 mEq/mL as the strength of the 88% Lactic Acid

For 80% Lactic Acid use these mEq/mL values:

To hit 5.4 pH : Leave 10 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 10.25 mEq/mL as the strength of the 80% Lactic Acid
To hit 5.5 pH : Leave 12 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 10.31 mEq/mL as the strength of the 80% Lactic Acid
To hit 5.6 pH : Leave 15 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 10.35 mEq/mL as the strength of the 80% Lactic Acid
To hit 5.7 pH : Leave 18 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 10.39 mEq/mL as the strength of the 80% Lactic Acid

For 85% Phosphoric Acid use these mEq/mL values:

To hit 5.4 pH : Leave 10 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 14.87 mEq/mL as the strength of the 85% phosphoric acid.
To hit 5.5 pH : Leave 12 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 14.92 mEq/mL as the strength of the 85% phosphoric acid.
To hit 5.6 pH : Leave 15 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 15.00 mEq/mL as the strength of the 85% phosphoric acid.
To hit 5.7 pH : Leave 18 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 15.09 mEq/mL as the strength of the 85% phosphoric acid.

 

[Lee Brown]

Wow!

this is so helpful. Thank you @Argentum

Top man.

 

[Argentum]

A couple more.

For 10% Phosphoric Acid use these mEq/mL values:

To hit 5.4 pH : Leave 10 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 1.0903 mEq/mL as the strength of the 10% phosphoric acid.
To hit 5.5 pH : Leave 12 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 1.0946 mEq/mL as the strength of the 10% phosphoric acid.
To hit 5.6 pH : Leave 15 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 1.0999 mEq/mL as the strength of the 10% phosphoric acid.
To hit 5.7 pH : Leave 18 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 1.1065 mEq/mL as the strength of the 10% phosphoric acid.

For crystalline 100% pure Citric Acid use these mEq/Gram values:

To hit 5.4 pH : Leave 10 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 9.885 mEq/Gram as the strength of citric acid.
To hit 5.5 pH : Leave 12 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 10.169 mEq/Gram as the strength of citric acid.
To hit 5.6 pH : Leave 15 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 10.447 mEq/Gram as the strength of citric acid.
To hit 5.7 pH : Leave 18 mg/L (ppm) of alkalinity behind, and use 10.726 mEq/Gram as the strength of citric acid.

 

[Argentum]

I wrapped all of this into a tidy PDF file.

 

[Jakeyboi]

I’ve just read the first 18 pages (of 45) of this thread, @strange-steve deserves a knighthood for his work here.

Needless to say I’ve just ordered
Both the salifert test kits
Cheapo Ph pen
Crs
Lactic acid
Calcium sulphate gypsum (think this is right)
Dls
Calcium chloride flakes

Looking forward to learning about this

 

[Lee Brown]

Ok. A little update. My water adjusted NEIPA is just over a week into conditioning is great. I am really pleased where this advice is taking my beer...so much so that I have now bought a Corny keg and c02 canister too!

 

[Jakeyboi]

My tests arrived today

KH = 60ppm
Ca = 35ppm

From what I’ve read in this thread, it’s a good water to work with?

so I basically need to drop the Alkalinity of my sparge water, and depending on the style decrease/increase the ph for the mash.

I need to increase the calcium somewhat

my next planned brew is a punk ipa clone

I need to lower the mash water by 40ppm alkalinity for a target of 20ppm mash which I worked out to be 0.07ml per litre using lactic acid.

my mash water is 13.5l = 0.945ml

I need to lower the sparge water by 30ppm for a target of 30ppm which is about 0.06ml per litre.

sparge water 15.5L = 0.93ml

I plan to add calcium sulphate to increase the calcium at a rate of 0.4g per litre 92ppm to bring it up to 127ppm.

works out 5.4g to the mash and 6.2g to the sparge water.


Does this sound about right?

I’m super excited to brew this now!

 

[HarryFlatters]

I'm going to put an 80 shilling on today, so I've based the calculations on a bitter, but it looks like it's asking for a lot of gypsum to be added, is this correct?

I don't fully understand the chemistry, and I'm based near Edinburgh and this is an Edinburgh beer, so I might just lob in a Campden tablet and forget about other additions this time around.