Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

[strange-steve]

Hi

What are you thoughts for my water. At the moment I usually just add a campden tablet and a bit of gypsum.

https://www.unitedutilities.com/ser...quality-search-results/?postcodeField=SK3+9RA

That's some really good water you have there, but your report doesn't include a value for alkalinity which is the most important. I'd guess it's around 35ppm but you'd be better finding out for sure before planning your treatment.

 

[Ajhutch]

I'm not certain, but I think dehusked should be treated the same as standard roasted grains when it comes to water treatment. Using something like carafa special instead of roasted barley or black malt in a stout will obviously reduce the dry, roasty flavours which seems to be what you're going for, but what you'll end up with is maybe something more like a porter than a stout I'd guess?

To be quite honest I've never really understood the difference between a porter and a stout. My understanding was that the dehusked still had some of the roast flavour without so much of the texture if that makes sense. I'm going to use oats and some flaked barley as well, I want quite a full rich mouthfeel.

 

[Litmus]

Hi

What are you thoughts for my water. At the moment I usually just add a campden tablet and a bit of gypsum.

https://www.unitedutilities.com/ser...quality-search-results/?postcodeField=SK3+9RA

You could try popping in the details from the water report here and selecting the beer type and it will give you a good idea if anything needs adjusting.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

 

[Adam0909]

That's some really good water you have there, but your report doesn't include a value for alkalinity which is the most important. I'd guess it's around 35ppm but you'd be better finding out for sure before planning your treatment.

I will do a test for alkalinity tonight and get the results up.

 

[Adam0909]

That's some really good water you have there, but your report doesn't include a value for alkalinity which is the most important. I'd guess it's around 35ppm but you'd be better finding out for sure before planning your treatment.

i have done the test I i reckon my alkalinity is 29ppm

thank for all the info steve

 

[Adam0909]

Daft question if my report says 13.4 mgCa/l I presume that 13.4ppm? That's what all the calculators online seem to point at

 

[Ajhutch]

Daft question if my report says 13.4 mgCa/l I presume that 13.4ppm? That's what all the calculators online seem to point at

Yes.


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[dad_of_jon]

Strange-steve: It's all guesswork though, because the reactions taking place in the mash are very complex, which is why the best thing to do is measure the pH, take good notes and try to adjust the next time. I wouldn't advise trying to chase pH during the mash if it's not quite right. Just let it be and adjust your additions accordingly on the next brew.

That is a top piece of advice. Simple but effective. Next time I do a partial mash I'll check out the ph. I only have litmus paper but it will show a difference from 7.8 to around 5 on the indicator strip. It wont be super accurate of course but would highlight any serious ph issue. :)

 

[Poochops]

My water report here https://www.unitedutilities.com/services/your-water-supply/drinking-water-quality/water-quality-search-results/?postcodeField=CH63+8NG gives my total hardness as 63 average and 118 maximin but I test my water regularly as I keep koi, and the kit test result always works out to 196 (11 degrees x 17.9)
The report also gives calcium at 49 average and 79 maximum, but the test kit averaged out at 95 over 4 samples yesterday.

Anyhow, chloride max says 113 and sulphate max says 56. I have some AMS, gypsum and calcium chloride, could you suggest how I should treat for a hoppy and for a malty brew please Steve?

 

[strange-steve]

Daft question if my report says 13.4 mgCa/l I presume that 13.4ppm? That's what all the calculators online seem to point at

Yes because a litre of pure water has a mass of 1 million mg, so 1mg in a litre equals 1 part in 1 million or 1 ppm (technically this is only accurate at 4°C but it's close enough for our purposes).

 

[strange-steve]

To be quite honest I've never really understood the difference between a porter and a stout. My understanding was that the dehusked still had some of the roast flavour without so much of the texture if that makes sense. I'm going to use oats and some flaked barley as well, I want quite a full rich mouthfeel.

You could be right, let us know how it goes anyway :thumb:
Regarding the difference between porter and stout, in my view, at least of the modern incarnations of the two styles, a stout has a more prominent black malt or roasted barley flavour than a porter which is more chocolatey. I'm aware that I may have opened a can of worms here because some people take this stuff way too seriously

 

[strange-steve]

My water report here https://www.unitedutilities.com/services/your-water-supply/drinking-water-quality/water-quality-search-results/?postcodeField=CH63+8NG gives my total hardness as 63 average and 118 maximin but I test my water regularly as I keep koi, and the kit test result always works out to 196 (11 degrees x 17.9)
The report also gives calcium at 49 average and 79 maximum, but the test kit averaged out at 95 over 4 samples yesterday.

Anyhow, chloride max says 113 and sulphate max says 56. I have some AMS, gypsum and calcium chloride, could you suggest how I should treat for a hoppy and for a malty brew please Steve?

Don't forget that hardness and alkalinity are not the same, so if you are using a Salifert KH test kit then you are testing for alkalinity which is the value you need, the hardness can be ignored.

So if your alkalinity is 196 as you say then it's way too high, even for a stout. Try to get it down to the appropriate level as follows:

For a pale beer <20ppm
For an amber beer ~35ppm
For a brown beer ~75ppm
For a black beer ~120ppm

You can use the table at the end of the OP to determine how much CRS to add. I would suggest doing a trial run with your CRS, so take 2L of water, test the alkalinity, then add 1.6ml of CRS, stir it well, test the alkalinity again. It should be reduced by around 150ppm or so. I have heard that CRS can be somewhat variable in its strength and because you'll be making fairly large adjustments, any variance will have a bigger impact.

I would also raise your calcium by around 50ppm, using gypsum for hoppy beers and calcium chloride for malty beers (around half a teaspoon per 10 litres of water should do the trick).

 

[strange-steve]

Next time I do a partial mash I'll check out the ph. I only have litmus paper but it will show a difference from 7.8 to around 5 on the indicator strip. It wont be super accurate of course but would highlight any serious ph issue. :)

In another of my threads (here) I compare one of the cheap yellow pH pens off eBay like this to a much more expensive pH meter, and after calibration they are surprisingly close.

 

[Poochops]

Thanks for that Steve very helpful, it is the Kh test kit that I use and I wasn't aware about the hardness and alkalinity not being the same, every day is a school day! Yesterday I treated my water just with the ams for the very first time, I took it down to <20ppm as per the OP, now interestingly (to me at least!) the ph of the treated water was 3.1 down from 7 which I found surprising, the ph of the wort after sparging was 5.5. I wasn't expecting either TBH but then I know bugger all about chemistry so hardly surprising. Is this in line with what you would expect yourself?

 

[strange-steve]

Yeah, AMS is a blend of hydrochloric and sulphuric acid, hence the drop in pH. But actually the pH of the mash water is mostly irrelevant, it's the alkalinity which determines the mash pH, and your pre boil pH of 5.5 sounds about perfect to me.

 

[foxy]

I wonder what people's thoughts are on the impact (if any) of using dehusked roasted grains in a stout. I'm very sensitive to astringency in beer so I plan to try dehusked roast barley which is supposed to lower the risk of that. What I don't know is whether that also lessens the impact that dark grains normally have on alkalinity or if these things are totally independent. Anyone have any thoughts?


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If you have your recipe then try cold steeping the speciality grains for 24 to 48 hours after crushing them separately, mash your base malts as normal and add the liquor from the steeped grains at vorlauf, don't squeeze the bag if you have steeped in a grain bag. You may have to make some adjustments to your water, I just treat my mash water as normal, a drop of lactic acid, sulphate and calcium chloride, but just check your pH after the steeped liquor goes in.

 

[foxy]

Just as a matter of interest how many people use Brewers Friend for water adjustments and have their local water supplier locked into their calculations?

 

[Hoddy]

I have historically used the BF calculator. But since I have been taking a more personal interest I have been comparing calculations from steves post Vs BF.

The results have varied quite a bit. Mostly on the allowable range and affect of gypsum additions. BF seems to indicate it thinks that if I add 0.15g/l of gypsum in a beer (which is what SS calcs would point towards) BF says it's too bitter and the SO4/CL ratio is too high.

Something similar on acid additions to achieve desired Ph targets too.

So I'm playing around to see who's right [emoji6]


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[private4587]

Steve hope you can be of assistance, my water comes from Northumbrian water and have been told their water report unless for brewing. I have the two kits you mentioned for testing the alkalinity and calcium. but i keep reading about other people adding epsom salts and other minerals to their mash water. Am i missing some other test kits for obtaining these results. I have attached a copy of my report if that helps. Thanks

View attachment Water Report.pdf

 

[foxy]

I have historically used the BF calculator. But since I have been taking a more personal interest I have been comparing calculations from steves post Vs BF.

The results have varied quite a bit. Mostly on the allowable range and affect of gypsum additions. BF seems to indicate it thinks that if I add 0.15g/l of gypsum in a beer (which is what SS calcs would point towards) BF says it's too bitter and the SO4/CL ratio is too high.

Something similar on acid additions to achieve desired Ph targets too.

So I'm playing around to see who's right [emoji6]


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I gave a contribution to Bru'n water and have used theirs which come out almost the same as BF so maybe that's where BF get their info from.