Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

[strange-steve]

@Manxnorton I've just added the how-tos here.

 

[strange-steve]

@Chippy_Tea sorry for hassling you again, but could you possibly make another amendment to the OP here? In the section under "Adjustment of alkalinity" there is a paragraph which says:

Well first you need to know what your alkalinity is. To do this you need a Salifert KH test kit which will give you an alkalinity value in dKH. Simply multiply that by 17.9 to convert to ppm. Test your water every time you brew, because tap water can be quite variable.

I'd like to add a link so that it now reads:

Well first you need to know what your alkalinity is. To do this you need a Salifert KH test kit which will give you an alkalinity value in dKH. Simply multiply that by 17.9 to convert to ppm. Test your water every time you brew, because tap water can be quite variable. (See HERE for the "How to use Salifert test kits" thread.)

Thanks again Chippy.

 

[MyQul]

@Chippy_Tea sorry for hassling you again, but could you possibly make another amendment to the OP here? In the section under "Adjustment of alkalinity" there is a paragraph which says:


I'd like to add a link so that it now reads:



Thanks again Chippy.

Done. :thumb:

 

[Manxnorton]

BLOODY EMASING!!
even bri can do it....:lol:
The cold tap water now!
Alkalinity 3.8 1.36 (is it 68.02ppm?)
Calcium 60ppm
what does it mean to my tiny brain please..

 

[Manxnorton]

No probs pal..
I've just done the alkanity test..
(Good old YouTube)
Right my thinking is I always fill my HLT from the hot water tap!(taking less time to heat the water) Is this going to be a prob?
If not the reading is:
0.64
5.4 kH value dKH
1.93 alkalinity
Haven't looked further what its means...
Now onto the calcium test...
TBC

5.4 x 17.9= 96.66:!:

 

[Manxnorton]

so...........
in theory the hot water is:
alkalintity= 96.66ppm
Calcium= 150ppm
cold water:
alkalinity= 68.02ppm
Calcium= 60ppm
....................................time to have a break!!! rest my brain....coz i feel a bit of confusion creepin in...SORRY GUYS!
I've got this far...wup wup!!
headphone on and listen to chill music...or can read my new book:thumb:

 

[Manxnorton]

Morning all,
All that brain power yesterday was...well good theropy and I enjoyed myself.
Thank you so much yous guys for being patient with me.
I was in bed early lol..but satisfied.
A new day...so looking at your how do it for adjusting the levels.
My Gypsum and the other kit Steve said to get comes tomorrow.
A brew day is getting better n better with all the stages, getting each persedure spot on.
I've got my notes printed out and following exactly.
Think the water treatment was the missing link, tbh.
Until the morrow.
Happy Sunday all.
Once again thx u.

 

[strange-steve]

Apologies for not replying sooner, had a wedding to go to yesterday. Anyway, your figures look a little odd, I can't see how the hot water would have more alkalinity and calcium than the cold water. Whether it's from a tank or a combi boiler, the hot is being supplied from the mains, same as the cold. Also the alkalinity and calcium figures seem slightly unusual too, I recommend you test them both again, from the cold tap, to confirm your results.

 

[Manxnorton]

Ha ha bri strike again!!
Too much going on and getting confused...
The hot is from combi boiler...
So I do once at time...
Starting cold water tab..
Thx pal for persivere with me...

Apologies for not replying sooner, had a wedding to go to yesterday. Anyway, your figures look a little odd, I can't see how the hot water would have more alkalinity and calcium than the cold water. Whether it's from a tank or a combi boiler, the hot is being supplied from the mains, same as the cold. Also the alkalinity and calcium figures seem slightly unusual too, I recommend you test them both again, from the cold tap, to confirm your results.

 

[Manxnorton]

COLD WATER ALKALINITY TEST
(Serringe reading 0.68, alkalinity in meg/l1.70)

dKH= 4.8

(4.8 x 17.9)
=85.92ppm

Now onto the calcium test :-)

 

[Manxnorton]

CALCIUM TEST
(Serringe reading=0.88)
= 60ppm
JUST THINKING OUT LOUD...
Now trying it all together is the hard part..(for my tiny brain, what it all means?)
Looking at the alkalinity level chart-
I.e. A Centurion Ghost Ale- Pale Ale?
20ppm
Reading the guide-
(alkalitity reading 4.8 x 17.9)
= 85.92ppm
So.....getting the level down to the 20ppm?
I get my delivery of acids CRS Gypsum in about an hr...
I'll hold it right there...don't want over Step the mark..
As u know it'll will get confusion very quickly lol

 

[cheeseyfeet]

Hi Steve,

Firstly, what a guy! This has demystified water treatment to me incredibly, and I now have a better picture of what I have after doing the two Salifert tests. Being in Scotland I knew I had very soft water, so I always brew pales and lagers/Kolsch but at most I've just lobbed a half teaspoon of gypsum into the mash and sometimes the boil. I always used a campden tablet too.

So I now know that I have 8.95ppm Alkalinity and 10ppm Calcium.

For my next Kolsch I'll target 5ppm alkalinity and 100ppm Calcium (mixed 70/30 in favour of Chloride to emphasize malt) - for 40l of water I'll therefore need 0.83ml of CRS, 4.7g of Gypsum and 9.33g of Calcium Chloride
For my next pale/IPA I'll leave alkalinity where it is and target 150ppm Calcium by adding 24.35g gypsum to 40l.

My question is - if I'm only ever reducing alkalinity, am I OK to treat my mash and sparge water in one go? I'd like to get the HLT filled with 40l (slightly more than I need but a nice round number) add the campden, acid and salts cold then get on with the brew day.

Does this sound like a plan?

Thanks again!

 

[geetee]

I treat HLT water for alkalinity (if needed) the chloride /sulphate are need for the mash so I add them dry to the mash and then mash in with water. This way you only need to treat the amount of water used in the mash for Chloride/sulphate and not the sparge water in the HLT

 

[cheeseyfeet]

I treat HLT water for alkalinity (if needed) the chloride /sulphate are need for the mash so I add them dry to the mash and then mash in with water. This way you only need to treat the amount of water used in the mash for Chloride/sulphate and not the sparge water in the HLT

Interesting, thanks Geetee, at the risk of opening a can of worms, aren't the chlorides and sulphates needed in the sparge and eventual volume going into the kettle for any flavour characteristics?

Or is their work done after the mash?

Cheers!

 

[strange-steve]

CALCIUM TEST
(Serringe reading=0.88)
= 60ppm
JUST THINKING OUT LOUD...
Now trying it all together is the hard part..(for my tiny brain, what it all means?)
Looking at the alkalinity level chart-
I.e. A Centurion Ghost Ale- Pale Ale?
20ppm
Reading the guide-
(alkalitity reading 4.8 x 17.9)
= 85.92ppm
So.....getting the level down to the 20ppm?
I get my delivery of acids CRS Gypsum in about an hr...
I'll hold it right there...don't want over Step the mark..
As u know it'll will get confusion very quickly lol

Ok we're getting somewhere now, and your water isn't bad at all.

So for a hoppy pale ale you want an alkalinity of somewhere around 20ppm and calcium of 100ppm.

Looking at the table then you need to add about 0.3ml/L of CRS and 0.2g/L of gypsum.

 

[strange-steve]

@cheeseyfeet that's some nice water you've got there. To answer your question, yes you can indeed treat all the water at once.

With an alkalinity of 9ppm I wouldn't bother lowering that, it's plenty low for any style even a lager. For a kolsch I'd maybe lower the calcium a bit to around 60 or so because it's a clean style and probably shouldn't be too mineraly.

As for your other question, the sulphate and chloride aren't actually needed in the mash (they are for flavour in the finished beer) so really they can be added at anytime before fermentation. However the calcium helps to lower the mash ph which is partly why it's added to the mash water. If brewing dark beers with low alkalinity water, the calcium addition in the mash water can actually cause the mash ph to drop too much, in which case it can be a good idea to add the calcium salts to the sweet wort just before the boil. This sort of thing though complicates a subject that can be complicated enough, which is why it was left out of the OP.

 

[Manxnorton]

Ok we're getting somewhere now, and your water isn't bad at all.

So for a hoppy pale ale you want an alkalinity of somewhere around 20ppm and calcium of 100ppm.

Looking at the table then you need to add about 0.3ml/L of CRS and 0.2g/L of gypsum.

Thx Steve,
Ova the moon.
Still waiting of my CRS...got the Gypsum...
Reet!!! 0.3 ml/l n 0.2g/l how do I measure them.....sorry in memory is gone so haven't done it before!!!
Looking at a bloke that 3 tropical fish tanks, water treatment...co2 tank the lot!!! Memory all gone...
Thx Steve I apreciate your time n effort and taking your time with me.

 

[strange-steve]

Thx Steve,
Ova the moon.
Still waiting of my CRS...got the Gypsum...
Reet!!! 0.3 ml/l n 0.2g/l how do I measure them.....sorry in memory is gone so haven't done it before!!!
Looking at a bloke that 3 tropical fish tanks, water treatment...co2 tank the lot!!! Memory all gone...
Thx Steve I apreciate your time n effort and taking your time with me.

There's a few ways to measure out the additions. For liquids such as lactic acid or CRS, use a syringe (like the ones that come with the Salifert kits). You can usually get these from a pharmacy or chemist.

For the salts, the best way is using jewellery scales which can be bought for a few quid on ebay. THIS is the one I use. If you don't have scales with the necessary accuracy, another method is to make a solution up by measuring, for example, 5g of gypsum and adding it to 2L of water (this is about the solubility limit of gypsum). Then you can add the appropriate amount of solution, 40ml=0.1g of gypsum. A third, and much less accurate option, is to measure out in teaspoons, 1 level tsp= approx 4g of gypsum.

 

[Manxnorton]

There's a few ways to measure out the additions. For liquids such as lactic acid or CRS, use a syringe (like the ones that come with the Salifert kits). You can usually get these from a pharmacy or chemist.

For the salts, the best way is using jewellery scales which can be bought for a few quid on ebay. THIS is the one I use. If you don't have scales with the necessary accuracy, another method is to make a solution up by measuring, for example, 5g of gypsum and adding it to 2L of water (this is about the solubility limit of gypsum). Then you can add the appropriate amount of solution, 40ml=0.1g of gypsum. A third, and much less accurate option, is to measure out in teaspoons, 1 level tsp= approx 4g of gypsum.

steve
soon as you mention the syringe & the scales....it all makes sence.
as you imagine with the other addiction (online shopping) ive got scales ans the syringe.
its all going to me m8...
take my hat out to you....teaching Bri Ducker is going to be a mare.....but now I'm shown I feel enlighten lol
thx once I get the crs be all action stations lol:thumb:

 

[MyQul]

as you imagine with the other addiction (online shopping) ive got scales ans the syringe.

And what other addictions do you use your scales*and syringes for, Bri? :whistle::lol:





* Joking aside I have some of those cheapo ebay jewellers scales and their really accurate. I calibrate them using coins and they never seem to lose accuracy.