Beer still a little cloudy

[WM7793]

A big thank you, to all contributors on this subject, is has been very helpful indeed. I will certainly be doing things a little different on my second batch

One thing though, reading through the replies I mistakenly thought that the initial "foaming" of the boiling wort, was the "hot break".

Now have I got this right? Do I "time" the 90 minute boil as soon as it comes to the boil, OR when the foaming has subsided.

I ask this as I need to know when adding hops etc.

Thanks to all again,
Best regards,
WM7793

 

[nobyipa]

i set me timer the second it gets to the boil and your 90 min hops go in then

unless your 1st wort hopping
which is when your runnings are washed over your fwh and the wort is then transferred to your boiler hops and all up to the point of boiling

 

[Aleman]

I allow it to boil until the foam subsides then I throw the hops in and start the timer.


. . . . . Unless I'm first wort hopping . . . In fact even If I am FWH Allow the foam to subside then throw in the bittering hops and start the timer

 

[brewtim]

What about the mash? Are you mashing for long enough to get conversion, starches that haven't been converted to sugar in the mash can be carried through the boil and into the fermenter and can cause a starch haze in the final beer. I'm not sure if starch haze is permanent.

 

[WM7793]

Just to reply to questions asked by forum members:

Graysalchemy: Yes, looking back, the beer was slightly cloudy at the time of bottling. But as mentioned in my opening post, the beer would always clear up after a period in the cold garage.

Mike77: The yeast I was using was WLP002. I thought I would go straight to liquid yeasts on the understanding that it would impart a superior flavour. I also thought that I could maybe use a single phial to incubate both experimental 20 pint batches, halving the suspended yeast. However, not knowing how to handle or store the now activated yeast, the entire contents went into a 20 pint batch. Expensive mistake, I know.

I need to do further reading or take advice on whether it is feasable to use liquid yeasts on small batches, or possibly split a single phial for the two batches

Brewtim: The mash was a standard 90 minute mash, followed by batch sparging. Although the temperature did drop by 8 degrees over that period, (Coleman Extreme 33L coolbox, quite disapointed with the temperature drop, I expected far less). I am taking steps to try to minimise this by placing a foil covered piece of polystyrene to fit over the grain and minimise headspace in the coobox.

A couple of further daft questions:

1. I brew in the garage, and what are your thoughts on boiling with the lid on or off?

My initial thoughts were that it may be better to let the steam escape, but this is causing my roof to get a little damp. Furthermore I suspect it may affect boil off numbers if you keep the lid on, (I have started using Beersmith)

Does this matter or are there any workarounds to disperse the steam

Again thanks for all your input,

WM7793

 

[brewtim]

1. I brew in the garage, and what are your thoughts on boiling with the lid on or off?

My initial thoughts were that it may be better to let the steam escape, but this is causing my roof to get a little damp. Furthermore I suspect it may affect boil off numbers if you keep the lid on, (I have started using Beersmith)

Does this matter or are there any workarounds to disperse the steam

Again thanks for all your input,

WM7793

I also boil in the garage, but the pot is close to the side door and I open the main door halfway to provide some airflow which helps, I also use a dehumidifier that draws out excess moisture in the week following brewday, I boil with a lid that has holes cut into it which I believe helps to maintain a good rolling boil with less energy usage . Boiling with the lid off (or with holes in it) is recommended to reduce DMS which can affect the flavour of your beer, it will also help to prevent a boilover, there may be other reasons that I'm not aware of.

 

[jonnymorris]

To quote, or at least paraphrase Aleman on the topic of DMS... there is little in the way of the precursor that forms DMS in modern, highly modified British malts so boiling with the lid off to allow DMS to escape is not a necessity.

You need to strike a balance between ensuring a good rolling boil, allowing what little DMS there may be to escape and reducing your wort to an appropriate volume.

 

[brewtim]

To quote, or at least paraphrase Aleman on the topic of DMS... there is little in the way of the precursor that forms DMS in modern, highly modified British malts so boiling with the lid off to allow DMS to escape is not a necessity.

Has DMS become a modern brewing myth?

So we should be able to boil more with the lid on to reduce energy usage and losses to evaporation, as long as we are brewing with modified malts and can watch for boilovers?

 

[IPA]

:thumb:

First of all was it crystal clear when you put it in the bottle?

Personally it sounds like you may have bottled too early.

I ferment until it is done then leave it a few more days raising the temp up to 21 so as the yeast can clean up (diacetyl rest).

Next I transfer into a secondary FV mainly to get it off the majority of the trub and into a clean sterile FV. Then I leave it to clear in a cold room or on a concrete floor for 7 days or until it is crystal clear.

Once clear it is ready for bottling. Firstly I transfer to a sterile bottling bucket, again getting it off any sediment. Then I batch prime adding 3-4g of sugar per Litre dissolved in a little boiling water and adding to the beer. Then I bottle. The beer is then left at 20c for a week and then 2-3 weeks in the cool. After this I try and leave it as long as possible but you can start drinking it. It should be crystal clear at this point.

As long as you secured a hot break in the boil (this is not the scum at the initial start of the boil, it occours through out the boil hencer the need for 90 a long boil)and a cold break on cooling it doesn't really matter if the cold break went in the FV or not as long as you get it of it, hence why i recommend using a secondary Fv.

:thumb: Follow this advice and you won't go wrong. :thumb:

 

[Aleman]

To quote, or at least paraphrase Aleman on the topic of DMS... there is little in the way of the precursor that forms DMS in modern, highly modified British malts so boiling with the lid off to allow DMS to escape is not a necessity.

Has DMS become a modern brewing myth?

Not really, Traditional British varieties of Barley grown and malted in the UK for pale malt will have very carefully controlled levels of s-methylmethionione (SMM) which is the precursor of DMS, with a good boil very little SMM is produced. I have always boiled with the boiler at least 75% covered, and my current boiler with the lid closed has a 2" diameter hole for evaporation. DMS has a boiling point of 35C, so even uncovering the boiler in the last 10 minutes of the boil (when you drop the IC in) will see it all driven off.

Barley for lager malt (not necessarily 2-row) has much higher levels of SMM, which does not get reduced as much during malting, and therefore carries over into the boil, again however because the boiling point is so low, much will get driven off while the wort is above 70-80C and so opening the lid occasionally during the boil for 5 minutes is sufficient to reduce it to below the taste threshold . . . but them DMS is a flavour component in some lager styles anyway

So we should be able to boil more with the lid on to reduce energy usage and losses to evaporation, as long as we are brewing with modified malts and can watch for boilovers?

Certainly, laid loosely over, and covering up to 80% of the surface area. Of course it will only enable you to reduce energy if you have some way of turning the heat applied down. easy on a gas rig, a bit more tricky on a electric one (Burst Fire Rectifier or a PWM controller required)

Note that having a lid on and keeping the same heat applied will not reduce true evaporation as it condenses on the lid and falls back in, Apparent evaporation is less, but I would expect the true evaporation rate to increase, as the boil would be more vigorous

 

[WM7793]

Thanks once again everybody who has contributed.

For me at least, it has been a very sharp learning curve getting my head around it all.

From the initial amount of research selecting the appropriate equipment, building and programming it, the whole new experience of all grain brewing, and in addition to all this, a first time user of Beersmith too!

I hopefully have come a long way in a short time, thanks to all your help.

ps it may not be the last time I seek your help though !!!

Best regards,
WM7793