BBC to go ahead with over-75s licence fee changes

[Galena]

@Binkei Huckaback That's what I was trying to say earlier but a whole lot better.

 

[terrym]

It really annoys me how some people's opinion becomes fact and how people pick up a little information and then fill in the gaps with heresay or supposition.

Do you know just how much you get with a TV licence?

-Seven national TV stations plus one each for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

-Ten national radio stations (plus Radio 4 longwave for all you cricket and Shipping Forcast fans).

-Seven stations for Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

-One national radio station for children.

-Forty local radio stations

-A massive internet presence

-World Service radio and television broadcasting across the world, giving a British view on world events.

Now tell me that's not good value.

The licence fee is not a tax. You only have to pay if you wish to use the relevant equipment.

No-one wants to see over-75s pay for a licence, but if you feel that strongly, instead of knocking the BBC, try asking the government why they felt it appropriate to stop funding free licences. While you're at it, you could also ask them what they've done with the part of your taxes which used to pay for free licences.

I saw a comment about the BBC's archive making millions at zero cost. That's a fair point, but some tine ago I worked in the industry and can tell you that's not the case. What about the rent, rates and services for the buildings that house the material? The database required to run the archive? The cost of the people to input the data? To pull the tapes? To despatch them? The cost of transferring everything to a new format of tape once something becomes obsolete? Archives are slowly being digitised, but there's a cost attached to it.

Who do you think is going to pick up religious and other minority programming that the BBC does so well? Sky? ITV? Good luck with that.

Think celebrity presenters on the BBC are overpaid? They're paid market rates. Imagine the howls of displeasure if the BBC had none.

The BBC is far from perfect, but that's no reason to get rid of it. No government likes The BBC.

The BBC is the envy of the world and contributes immeasurably to the cultural wellbeing of the country. Please don't let the government kill it. Once it's gone, it'll be gone forever and you won't see any benefit from it's demise. All you'll be left with is £157.50

I can understand your point of view which seems, in the main, that paying comparatively very little for lots makes it good value.
First, quantity of product doesn't necessarily mean quality.
Next many many people don't listen to radio, let alone local radio, don't access the BBC online services, hardly watch live TV, and probably have never listened to or used the BBC World service. With the exception of the internet I tick all of those boxes, and my wife is the same. But I still pay the licence fee, irrespective. I have no choice in the matter. Its a one size fit all . So it is a form of taxation, since in theory if I didn't pay the fee and subsequently accessed a BBC online page in the UK I am committing a criminal act, just as for any other tax I might choose to disregard.
I am a believer in consumer choice. How I spend my money is geared to what I want to buy and what value the product can offer me. I am quite happy to pay for the communication services I choose to use, but not stuff I don't and have no interest in.
And finally I don't really subscribe to this envy of the world stuff. Our days of being an Imperial power have long gone. We are just another country with a variable history, hopefully important to those who live here, but less so to folks who don't. And if I were being really cynical I could argue that the envy of the world stuff is a myth perpetuated by the BBC and others with a vested interest to justify its existence

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

And finally I don't really subscribe to this envy of the world stuff. Our days of being an Imperial power have long gone. We are just another country with a variable history, hopefully important to those who live here, but less so to folks who don't. And if I were being really cynical I could argue that the envy of the world stuff is a myth perpetuated by the BBC and others with a vested interest to justify its existence

The BBC being the envy of the world in terms of broadcasting has nothing to do with imperialism. It has everything to do with value, impatiality, quality of programming and content. Speak to people from other countries who have consumed BBC content or used the BBC when they've been in the UK and that's what they and many in the industry will tell you.

 

[marshbrewer]

It has everything to do with value, impatiality, quality of programming

Many would dispute that particular attribute.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It really annoys me how some people's opinion becomes fact and how people pick up a little information and then fill in the gaps with heresay or supposition.

Do you know just how much you get with a TV licence?

-Seven national TV stations plus one each for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

-Ten national radio stations (plus Radio 4 longwave for all you cricket and Shipping Forcast fans).

-Seven stations for Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

-One national radio station for children.

-Forty local radio stations

-A massive internet presence

-World Service radio and television broadcasting across the world, giving a British view on world events.

Now tell me that's not good value.

The licence fee is not a tax. You only have to pay if you wish to use the relevant equipment.

No-one wants to see over-75s pay for a licence, but if you feel that strongly, instead of knocking the BBC, try asking the government why they felt it appropriate to stop funding free licences. While you're at it, you could also ask them what they've done with the part of your taxes which used to pay for free licences.

I saw a comment about the BBC's archive making millions at zero cost. That's a fair point, but some tine ago I worked in the industry and can tell you that's not the case. What about the rent, rates and services for the buildings that house the material? The database required to run the archive? The cost of the people to input the data? To pull the tapes? To despatch them? The cost of transferring everything to a new format of tape once something becomes obsolete? Archives are slowly being digitised, but there's a cost attached to it.

Who do you think is going to pick up religious and other minority programming that the BBC does so well? Sky? ITV? Good luck with that.

Think celebrity presenters on the BBC are overpaid? They're paid market rates. Imagine the howls of displeasure if the BBC had none.

The BBC is far from perfect, but that's no reason to get rid of it. No government likes The BBC.

The BBC is the envy of the world and contributes immeasurably to the cultural wellbeing of the country. Please don't let the government kill it. Once it's gone, it'll be gone forever and you won't see any benefit from it's demise. All you'll be left with is £157.50

 

[Falco]

No-one wants to see over-75s pay for a licence, but if you feel that strongly, instead of knocking the BBC, try asking the government why they felt it appropriate to stop funding free licences. While you're at it, you could also ask them what they've done with the part of your taxes which used to pay for free licences.

Exactly this.

Most Public TV service funding around the world is provided by some sort of levy or tax, so the UK isn’t an outlier. The current arguments about ending the free license for over 75’s are just another way for the government to deflect responsibility for it. It was a political act by the then Tory Chancellor George Osborne, the Beeb had no say in that decision

 

[GhostShip]

I used to be a huge supporter of the BBC, but my opinion has changed in recent years - probably because of the competition and the blatantly obvious bias of the corporation. The BBC was always best at everything, but that's no longer the case. Sky now does sport better than anyone else and Netflix is producing the best drama and documentaries. I think the licence fee has had its day.

 

[PhilBrew]

No-one wants to see over-75s pay for a licence ...

... it's interesting how the debate here has focussed on the "value for money" and "taxation vs payment for services" arguments, and the statement in the quote above is allowed to go unquestioned

When they made the changes around "means testing" the winter fuel allowance, the discussions around whether well-off pensioners should pay their way, created lots of discussion, although it may have focussed a lot on
whether millionaire oldies should still benefit from government handouts ... but this is just what is happening now with the licence fee. The Pension Credit is a "means tested" benefit and if you qualify for that, you get a free TV licence, if you don't you have to pay for one like everyone else. How is that not fair?

I think for a while we've been given the impression that pensioners are all "salt of the earth" types who toiled long and hard to create our society and who now deserve a rest and anything and everything free/cheap, as a reward ... but an awful lot of those over 75s are the people who benefitted from the unprecedented (before and since) social mobility created due to the combined factors of the incredible loss of "human resources" (from two world wars) and the boom in the economy generated from all the post-war rebuilding projects. They took those opportunities and used the benefits they recouped to buy land and property when it was relatively cheap (making them asset rich) and they re-arranged society to look after them with free healthcare (making them health rich), and they organised themselves lifelong professions (where no-one ever had to face taking a pay cut) and generous (with hindsight, many would say overly generous), final-salary pensions (making them cash rich) ... those over-75s aren't (all ) the people who fought the war, lots of them are the people who were retiring early back in the 80s, 90s and noughties. Retiring in their fifties (some of them in their late forties) with the sort of pension packages most workers today couldn't even imagine. Personally, some of the most well-off people I know are over 75s, so why should they be getting discounts to the cinema/theatre/the cost of haircuts or free TV Licences or winter fuel allowance handouts

Cheers, PhilB

 

[marshbrewer]

Plus the fact that the free TV licence was brought in by the new labour government; it isnt some kind of thing that has been around since time began which oldies have always assumed they would get, it's a relatively recent development. What the state giveth, the state can take away, to misquote the Bible.

I still don't understand what the BBC's supporters have against an encrypted subscription model. It's almost as if they think the beeb is so bad, nobody would subscribe!

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

Having thought about it, I'm inclined to agree with PhilB. The same with the word hero. That's bandied about far too often.

 

[terrym]

... it's interesting how the debate here has focussed on the "value for money" and "taxation vs payment for services" arguments, and the statement in the quote above is allowed to go unquestioned

When they made the changes around "means testing" the winter fuel allowance, the discussions around whether well-off pensioners should pay their way, created lots of discussion, although it may have focussed a lot on
whether millionaire oldies should still benefit from government handouts ... but this is just what is happening now with the licence fee. The Pension Credit is a "means tested" benefit and if you qualify for that, you get a free TV licence, if you don't you have to pay for one like everyone else. How is that not fair?

I think for a while we've been given the impression that pensioners are all "salt of the earth" types who toiled long and hard to create our society and who now deserve a rest and anything and everything free/cheap, as a reward ... but an awful lot of those over 75s are the people who benefitted from the unprecedented (before and since) social mobility created due to the combined factors of the incredible loss of "human resources" (from two world wars) and the boom in the economy generated from all the post-war rebuilding projects. They took those opportunities and used the benefits they recouped to buy land and property when it was relatively cheap (making them asset rich) and they re-arranged society to look after them with free healthcare (making them health rich), and they organised themselves lifelong professions (where no-one ever had to face taking a pay cut) and generous (with hindsight, many would say overly generous), final-salary pensions (making them cash rich) ... those over-75s aren't (all ) the people who fought the war, lots of them are the people who were retiring early back in the 80s, 90s and noughties. Retiring in their fifties (some of them in their late forties) with the sort of pension packages most workers today couldn't even imagine. Personally, some of the most well-off people I know are over 75s, so why should they be getting discounts to the cinema/theatre/the cost of haircuts or free TV Licences or winter fuel allowance handouts

Cheers, PhilB

Some of us old folks worked hard throughout our working lives, made sacrifices, saved as much as we could along the way, had hardship, sometimes little disposable income, 15% mortgages to pay for, even working in a profession. and so whereas it tough for some now its been tough for others in previous generations too. However you make the best of your opportunities in life, like I did and like my grown up childern are now doing. So dont go saying that old folks like me don't really deserve the standard of living we have created for ourselves.

 

[Linalmeemow]

I used to be a huge supporter of the BBC, but my opinion has changed in recent years - probably because of the competition and the blatantly obvious bias of the corporation. The BBC was always best at everything, but that's no longer the case. Sky now does sport better than anyone else and Netflix is producing the best drama and documentaries. I think the licence fee has had its day.

In which direction do you think it's biased? Genuinely interested, as I think both the left and right consider it biased in terms of news content.

 

[Galena]

I used to be a huge supporter of the BBC, but my opinion has changed in recent years - probably because of the competition and the blatantly obvious bias of the corporation. The BBC was always best at everything, but that's no longer the case. Sky now does sport better than anyone else and Netflix is producing the best drama and documentaries. I think the licence fee has had its day.

Well that of course is subjective, I subscribe to Netflix and would argue that they are not producing quality drama, okay I have enjoyed a few months of decent dramas but now find it increasingly difficult to find anything to watch. I can spend a long time browsing and still not find anything, they simply cater for the masses. I will shortly be ending my Netflix subscription.

 

[marshbrewer]

. I will shortly be ending my Netflix subscription.

But we aren't allowed to end our BBC 'subscription'?

 

[Linalmeemow]

But we aren't allowed to end our BBC 'subscription'?

Yes you are.

 

[marshbrewer]

Yes you are.

Not if you want to watch *any* live TV from the other stations. The license conditions subtly changed at the last settlement (when the cost of the over 75's was passed back to the Beeb).

 

[PhilBrew]

So dont go saying that old folks like me don't really deserve the standard of living we have created for ourselves.

. I said that ... I made no comment on whether or not I feel well off old people deserve their standard of living, what I was commenting on was the fact that there are lots of very well off old people who are much better off than lots of others in society, yet still pensioners get given all sorts of freebies just because of their age ... free bus passes and free prescriptions are a couple more examples ... there are plenty more deserving people for state subsidised handouts than plenty of very comfortably off oldies ... and the justifications for continuing giving well off oldies all sorts of perks, simply on account of their age, are falling away all the time.

Cheers, PhilB

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Posts edited.
can we stop with the BS calls there is no need for it and I dread to think where this will go later when a few home brews have gone down the hatch, disagree by all means but please keep it civil.

 

[DavidHatton]

I would say what sickens me mostly is that all of the 75's have already paid the licence for maybe more than 55 years and now the bbc has come calling at their bank balances once again, they should be ashamed, very little respect is being shown as to maybe they have paid their share!!

 

[Linalmeemow]

I would say what sickens me mostly is that all of the 75's have already paid the licence for maybe more than 55 years and now the bbc has come calling at their bank balances once again, they should be ashamed, very little respect is being shown as to maybe they have paid their share!!

That's not how any of this works. By that logic any service you've paid for over many years should become free once you hit a certain age. Been paying for gas and electricity for 50 years? Free from now on! Renting the same property since you were in your twenties? Free!