Barrel Aged Imperial Stout

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Thanks for starting this thread

I have been looking at getting a barrel to age some stout in and had come accross that site before but noticed the following -

"The insides of the barrels have been resaved back to fresh oak and then the barrels have had a medium char/toast inside for flavouring."

Which made me think that any contact area thats been soaked with bourbon would of surely been shaved off then when the barrel has been re charred that would again burn off much of the flavour ??

Any thoughts on this as you have actually got one there - is there still a noticeable bourbon character to it?

Was actually moving more towards buying a new barrel and sticking a bottle of bourbon in it for a few weeks after its been swelled with water and rotating as much as possible before using it to try and get some bourbon character into the barrel but now I have read your thread im moving more back to getting one of these

cheers

It does have a Bourbon aroma but it isn’t overly strong so I’m guessing that it will impart a fairly mild bourbon character. I too am thinking of draining the water out a day or two before I barrel the stout and adding some bourbon which I will swirl round every so often for a couple of days before draining it (into a glass, naturally) and filling with barrel with beer.

 

[phildo79]

Might be a daft question but since pro breweries say they barrel age imp stout for a year, why do it for such a short time, comparatively speaking? Does the volume play a part? I fake barrel aged a KBS clone and used bourbon soaked oak chips. Think I left them on the oak for two months and then panicked in case I had over oaked the beer. I didn't, btw, but the stout wasn't good to go for four months, all in.

 

[Sadfield]

Thanks for starting this thread

I have been looking at getting a barrel to age some stout in and had come accross that site before but noticed the following -

"The insides of the barrels have been resaved back to fresh oak and then the barrels have had a medium char/toast inside for flavouring."

Which made me think that any contact area thats been soaked with bourbon would of surely been shaved off then when the barrel has been re charred that would again burn off much of the flavour ??

Any thoughts on this as you have actually got one there - is there still a noticeable bourbon character to it?

Was actually moving more towards buying a new barrel and sticking a bottle of bourbon in it for a few weeks after its been swelled with water and rotating as much as possible before using it to try and get some bourbon character into the barrel but now I have read your thread im moving more back to getting one of these

cheers

It's the wood and that heating and charring that gives bourbon, or any whiskey, it's flavour.

https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/what...how-do-they-affect-the-way-my-whiskey-tastes/
The process can be easily replicated at home.

https://www.homebrewfinds.com/2015/...g-your-own-wood-chips-by-matt-del-fiacco.html

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Might be a daft question but since pro breweries say they barrel age imp stout for a year, why do it for such a short time, comparatively speaking? Does the volume play a part? I fake barrel aged a KBS clone and used bourbon soaked oak chips. Think I left them on the oak for two months and then panicked in case I had over oaked the beer. I didn't, btw, but the stout wasn't good to go for four months, all in.

Yes the volume makes a difference because of the surface area of the barrel - tawny port for example is deliberately aged in small barrels and becomes “tawny” through increased oxidation. It also makes a difference how many times the barrel has been used - if it’s a freshly decommissioned barrel then a few weeks is plenty but if it’s already been used a couple of times then a few months might be needed.

I can’t imagine there isn’t also a marketing point here - longer is better surely!

 

[Sadfield]

Adding to the above post. Stave thickness makes a difference, as does the wood used, some woods are more porous than others.

More related to sour beers, there's some useful info on oxygen diffusion, in this.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...gQFnoECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0KaPAw8j4_aoK8klDPR6kV

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Adding to the above post. Stave thickness makes a difference, as does the wood used, some woods are more porous than others.

More related to sour beers, there's some useful info on oxygen diffusion, in this.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...gQFnoECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0KaPAw8j4_aoK8klDPR6kV

If you’re making sours then old wine barrels are good. Wine barrels are discarded when they get infected with wild bacteria and yeast so they are not wanted by most people but it’s the right kind of “bugs” for funky sours.

 

[samale]

Enjoying this threat H, really interesting

 

[Sadfield]

If you’re making sours then old wine barrels are good. Wine barrels are discarded when they get infected with wild bacteria and yeast so they are not wanted by most people but it’s the right kind of “bugs” for funky sours.

A wine barrel would have been nice. In the end I opted for chunks of raw oak in a corny keg in the end, in order to limit the oxygen diffusion over +12 months storage. I also did my own roasting and charring on the wood and harvested some local flora to add to the bugs.

I read somewhere that some people wrap their small barrels in shrink wrap to limit the oxygen ingress over long storage periods. Not a problem though with your planned length of ageing.

IIRC correctly, a combination of Sodium or Potassium Met. and Citric acid, makes the best storage solution.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

A wine barrel would have been nice. In the end I opted for chunks of raw oak in a corny keg in the end, in order to limit the oxygen diffusion over +12 months storage. I also did my own roasting and charring on the wood and harvested some local flora to add to the bugs.

I read somewhere that some people wrap their small barrels in shrink wrap to limit the oxygen ingress over long storage periods. Not a problem though with your planned length of ageing.

IIRC correctly, a combination of Sodium or Potassium Met. and Citric acid, makes the best storage solution.

I’ll only be storing for about two weeks so I’m hoping that boiling water will be all I need before the brew goes in. The barrel will be in storage for longer afterwards though.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I’ve nearly put together my recipe for tomorrow, just a bit of fine tuning now. First the water. I’m planning on using a balanced SO4/Cl water profile with alkalinity and calcium around 100, and sodium around 40.

Testing my water with the Salifert kits todays water has alkalinity of 234ppm and calcium is 110ppm

These values are most often around 280 and 150 respectively so I’m going to need a higher proportion of tap water to RO water, in fact I’m going 50:50.

This will give me a base water profile:
Ca:55, Na:18, SO4:36, Cl 25, HCO3:117

To this I’ll add 0.1g/l Calcium Sulphate, 0.075g/l Calcium Chloride, and 0.05g/l Sodium Chloride for a final profile:
Ca:99, Na:38, SO4:92, Cl:91, HCO3:117

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I’ve drafted a recipe, below.

I only have 2 packs of Nottingham and I’m a bit worried that might be a bit light so I’m going to make a starter.

Not noted below there is no way I’m going to ferment 22 litres of 1.111 beer in a single 30 litre fermenting bucket, I’ll be fermenting 11 litres in each of 2 buckets and I will still keep an eye on them.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I decided to make a start in this tonight as well as preparing what I needed for tomorrow.

First the cold-steeped roast grains. All weighed out, milled, and 4 litres of treated water added. A nice stir and it will now rest (apart from an occasional stir) until tomorrow.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Next the starters. I’m making two because I’m using 2 litre bottles and they’re not big enough to hold a starter for this bad boy.

Boil up some dried malt extract, add cold water to dilute and cool to 25C, divide the wort (1.030) between the two bottles and add the yeast. Set aside for tomorrow.

Edit: I actually added a second stage the following morning because I was still a bit unsure about whether there was enough yeast. This meant I was unable to pitch the starter until quite late in the day. Went off like a rocket when I did pitch it

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

The first mash is on. At the first check point the gravity is 1.070 and the pH is 5.5. The pH is a touch higher than I planned but it’s in the ball park and still fine for a stout.

 

[devexwarrior]

Celtic Timber are only a few miles from me. I bought some nice oak planks to make a book case for my granddaughter. With her little brother arriving at the end of the year, I'll be ordering some more. Very helpful.

 

[Pennine]

Are you doing a reiterated mash for this?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Are you doing a reiterated mash for this?

No, I’m doing two separate mashes and then combining the wort from the two mashes into one boil. I have done a reiterated mash before and it took a long time, the higher the sugar concentration in the wort the slower the extraction in the next mash.

Edit: I actually did a partial reiterated mash in the end… I have about 7 litres of recoverable dead space under my grain basket so I struggled a bit with the first mash because it was so thick. I used about 2 litres of the wort from the first mash to thin the second mash. If I repeat this recipe I’ll use 18 litres in the first mash and in the second I’ll use the remaining 14 litres plus 4 litres of wort from the first mash.

 

[Sadfield]

The first mash is on. At the first check point the gravity is 1.070 and the pH is 5.5. The pH is a touch higher than I planned but it’s in the ball park and still fine for a stout.

View attachment 71744

I wonder if you could have used some of the liquor from the dark malts steep to lower the mash pH?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I wonder if you could have used some of the liquor from the dark malts steep to lower the mash pH?

Yes you could. I’m trying to keep any harsh bitterness from the roast malts down so I’m cold steeping the roast grains and adding that liquor back later in the boil. You then have to treat your mash as a regular pale ale mash. I just slightly under estimated the amount of acid I would need. It isn’t going to cause any issues particularly and because this is the first time I’ve brewed this recipe I know there will be mistakes. I’ll record the changes and re-publish the recipe. I discovering tonight a simple mistake when estimating gravity - I’ve over estimated the gravity points throughout the mash because I forgot I’m adding some glucose later so those gravity points won’t be seen during the mash

 

[Brewnaldo]

Yes you could. I’m trying to keep any harsh bitterness from the roast malts down so I’m cold steeping the roast grains and adding that liquor back later in the boil. You then have to treat your mash as a regular pale ale mash. I just slightly under estimated the amount of acid I would need. It isn’t going to cause any issues particularly and because this is the first time I’ve brewed this recipe I know there will be mistakes. I’ll record the changes and re-publish the recipe. I discovering tonight a simple mistake when estimating gravity - I’ve over estimated the gravity points throughout the mash because I forgot I’m adding some glucose later so those gravity points won’t be seen during the mash

Apologies if missed....

Why glucose rather than ME of some sort