Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

[feemackenzie]

I certainly won't be getting rid of my 42 year old Volkswagen, or the gas guzzling 43 year old Porsche engine that lives in the back of it!

My xc70 beast will be driven for a while to come

 

[Chippy_Tea]

No smoke no fun

 

[marshbrewer]

Have we covered this yet? Looks promising.

New electric car battery can charge in five minutes

 

[Northern_Brewer]

There's several people working on that kind of thing, although Storedot seem to be making good progress on the slow journey from the lab to the showroom. This article suggests that although they've made engineering samples on a commercial factory line, they won't be on sale until 2025. And although the 5 minutes to fill is a good headline, it's pretty demanding from a transmission network POV, "100 miles in 5 minutes" from existing infrastructure is more realistic and still very useful.


Seems Tesla are feeling the competition a bit, they've cut prices of the Model 3 in Europe by 10% or so.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Nissan have announced they are going to make their EV batteries in the UK

 

[Bernie]

It's worth noting that daily car journeys into London account for less than 10% of passenger numbers (Fig 2.5 Travel in London Report 8, Transport for London 2015. The rest is public transport and a large number is on the electric underground as well as electric trains, which, eventually, will all be electrified.
Do we really need private vehicles as much as we say? A number of factors makes public transport easier by:
1 Coordinated information on timetables and ticketing
2 Easier booking and payment of tickets and car hire.
3 EV taxis.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Nissan have announced they are going to make their EV batteries in the UK

They're going to make one battery for the new Leaf here, to increase the local content so they can export to the EU tariff-free. It's a small fraction of the battery factories that we need to build here to be competitive in the future though.

And Nissan's messaging is always entertaining - from what I hear, it's one of those organisations that's intensely factional/political and isn't afraid to show it. So the UK contingent obviously have very good contacts at the FT and often place stories there that paint a story that's super-favourable to Sunderland, that then gets rolled back once head office give their version. So we'll see what the reality is - they're talking up the possibility of things like their electric SUV coming to Sunderland but at the moment that's all talk.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

They also said the trade deal will secure the current worker's jobs which i guess means they were not safe.

 

[trummy]

That battery that jjsh mentions could be a game changer - 10 min charge times ( charge only next to a power station!) They are suggesting 3 years to the consumer so can my 2003 Civic last another 5 years I wonder?
One point that may/may not have been mentioned, my understanding is that the electricity transfer using the National Grid is only 50% efficient.
Local Nuclear Fusion plants next? Brave New World!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

That battery that jjsh mentions could be a game changer - 10 min charge times ( charge only next to a power station!) They are suggesting 3 years to the consumer so can my 2003 Civic last another 5 years I wonder?

The article I posted suggested 2025 - and even then it will likely be introduced in premium vehicles first (or ones that really need it, like taxis), so I wouldn't bank on it replacing your Civic in 2023...

One point that may/may not have been mentioned, my understanding is that the electricity transfer using the National Grid is only 50% efficient.

If you follow the link I gave back in post 274, you'll see it's nothing like that, more like 2% over the National Grid proper, and a bit more than that over the low-power network. You may be think of the overall efficiency from fossil fuel to electricity in your home? Which is increasingly less relevant as fossil fuels are now producing less electricity than renewables. And the efficiency of electric motors at 90% is so much greater than alternatives that electric tends to win any arguments about energy efficiency.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Also worth noting that electric vehicles don't have to look like existing ones. In particular, electric delivery vehicles don't have to look like a Transit van with some batteries in. There's a number of companies working on last-mile delivery robots, Starship Techologies have now reached a million deliveries :



One issue is getting the law changed to allow robots on pavements but they've been in a suburb of Milton Keynes for nearly 2 years, delivering takeways, Tesco/Coop food and acting as a virtual delivery point for e-commerce (you give the retailer the Starship depot as your address, then set a time for Starship to deliver to your house), for £1 a go.
https://edelivery.net/2019/10/starship-delivery-robot-project-milton-keynes-mean-retailers/Current robots can deliver up to 9kg, including separate compartments for hot and cold food, and seem to have removable battery packs although the next generation will have all-day endurance and charge at night.

Looking at suburbs and university/corporate campuses in the first instance.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Useful infographic on the materials you would need to build 20 million current-technology Teslas per year - for comparison the world currently produces in total around 70 million cars and 90 million vehicles annually :

In reality there are likely to be different technologies for different sectors. For instance there's been some recent advances in sodium ion batteries which are now at about half the energy density of lithium ion, 10-20% cheaper and using far less of rare materials. So you won't be seeing them in the fancy cars, but they'll be likely be good enough for pottering to the shops and in particular for large-scale electricity storage where energy density is less important than cost. There's a good review here :
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsenergylett.0c02181

 

[Northern_Brewer]

From the FT, % of new cars that are electric (horizontal) in European markets, and growth (vertical)

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Investment in hydrogen fell last year, and electric vehicles are getting 130x the investment compared to hydrogen, which tells you something about the way things are going
https://about.bnef.com/energy-transition-investment/

 

[Bernie]

California centred but worth considering.
https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/defaul...ner-Cars-from-Cradle-to-Grave-full-report.pdf

 

[Leon103]

It will.

BTW i am not a tree hugging diesel/petrol car hater i run an old diesel as that was the in thing to buy when i bought it i will be driving it for another year and a half or so then i will have to make a big decision to either buy the Vitara (mild) Hybrid that is currently at the top of my list or go for a second hand EV.


One of my favourite car reviewers.

Suzuki Vitara Hybrid In-Depth Review - The Spacious Family SUV You Need?

Did you make a decision on this? I have a 2019 vitara, the 1.0l boosterjet. A family member owns a Suzuki dealership and offered me a new 1.4l hybrid, said I will speak to him tomorrow. Will give that review a look later.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Did you make a decision on this? I have a 2019 vitara, the 1.0l boosterjet. A family member owns a Suzuki dealership and offered me a new 1.4l hybrid, said I will speak to him tomorrow. Will give that review a look later.

Yes i am definitely going for the new 1.4 litre turbo petrol mild hybrid they no longer fit the 1.0 Litre 3 cylinder which i was originally thinking about buying, it'll be a while before i can buy one (18 months ish) but i am looking forward to owning one and i haven't seen anything else i prefer.

 

[Leon103]

Yes i am definitely going for the new 1.4 litre turbo petrol mild hybrid they no longer fit the 1.0 Litre 3 cylinder which i was originally thinking about buying, it'll be a while before i can buy one (18 months ish) but i am looking forward to owning one and i haven't seen anything else i prefer.

I am hoping it will be a manual. Apparently Suzuki are fazing out all manual cars, by next year none will be made. Not that I will drive it much, the wife uses the vitara

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Not sure I like the twin clutch auto seems a lot to go wrong and big bills if it does, the reviewers seem to like them so maybe its just one of those things we are going to have to get used to.

Search cam belt I'm oil ford and vauxhall are using them in more and more engines I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Yes i am definitely going for the new 1.4 litre turbo petrol mild hybrid they no longer fit the 1.0 Litre 3 cylinder which i was originally thinking about buying, it'll be a while before i can buy one (18 months ish) but i am looking forward to owning one and i haven't seen anything else i prefer.

Or perhaps an approved used one. I bought a 7 year old approved used suzuki splash for my daughter and it was A1 condition.

https://ucl.suzuki.co.uk/cars/used/...ew-milton/hampshire/19131748/?frch=#top-image
I paid £18K for my dec 2019 - pre reg delivery miles only. In turquoise.