Are you religious?

[Slid]

For those who identify as Christian, (or anyone else) here are a few simple questions about the fundamentals of that religion.

1 What was Christ's given name?
2 What language did he speak?
3 How many years after his death, was the first gospel (Matthew) written?
4 And finally, how many years after was his death was the fourth (John) written?

I doubt anyone can get all 4 correct (approximately) without Googling.

A very good set of questions! I researched this stuff ages ago, when we went to church and then SWMBO volunteered me to do Sunday School.

Sunday School turned out to be much less boring than the sermons and I thought I might actually know what I was supposed to be "teaching them about Jesus". So:

1, Almost certainly something like Joshua. As pointed out above, "Jesus" is actually a Mexican name and will derive originally from a transliteration into the romano-greek style on masculine nomenclature.
2. Aramaic - the language John Mark scribbled the first account of his life in, with the added bonus of using a Greek vocabulary wrenched into his Aramaic grammatical rules. Christianity is a Greek phenomenon.
3. All half serious biblical scholars believe in the notion of "Markan Primacy". That is that John Mark of Jerusalem (or some other kid, no real need to enquire) scribbled out the sayings of Simon (whom the Lord called Peter) some time shortly after the time of the deaths of both Peter and Saul of Tarsus. The said Mark was a disciple first of Saul (Paul) and then of Peter. Matthew is a copy of Mark which incorporated both some mythological stories of the deeds not only of Jesus but his alter ego- the risen Christ, or Jewish Messiah, and some weird nonsense from the Old Testament, which was supposed to convince a sceptical Jewish audience that Jesus was the promised Messiah. Matthew the gospel writer and Matthew (or Levi, son of Alpheus) cannot be and were not the same person. Absolutely no even half serious biblical scholar would believe anything else.
4. John emanates from Ephesus, then the most important port in the eastern Mediterranean, at the very earliest, in the second century AD. Only 9% of its content can be found in Mark (feeding of 5,000, passion narrative...) or the other so-called synoptic gospels (Matt and Luke). In short, John is a work of an oral tradition, or, better, mythology about a "risen Christ", a figment of the imagination of the epileptic mind of Saul of Tarsus.

 

[An Ankoù]

I have been collecting quotes on religion, belief and atheism. If anyone wants to read them, please PM me. I fear I will offend some members here and that is not my wish. I am a keen student of religions. They fascinate me. But I am no believer. I suppose I am a cultural Christian by upbringing. My parents brought me up as a Christian until they realised I had made my own choices, at age 12. They never went to church after that. Duty done!

I'd very much like to see your thoughts on the matter if you'd be kind enough to PM me. Took me until 15 to cast of the shackles as that was the earliest I could leave home. Yep, Dad really put the "fun" into "fundamentalism.

 

[Slid]

Oh no, I did not actually answer question 3. Went into rant mode instead.
So, Matthew was first scribed after Mark and before the expulsion of the Christian sect from the synagogue. So between the recapture of the walled city of Jerusalem by the Romans (by now the Flavian dynasty - Vespasian and Titus, the man who never smiled) and the late first century AD. No biblical scholar would place this earlier than 80 AD.

Of course, in the days before the printing press, the gospels would be hand written and copied, usually with redactions to suit the commissioner of the copying.

 

[An Ankoù]

A very good set of questions! I researched this stuff ages ago, when we went to church and then SWMBO volunteered me to do Sunday School.

Sunday School turned out to be much less boring than the sermons and I thought I might actually know what I was supposed to be "teaching them about Jesus". So:

1, Almost certainly something like Joshua. As pointed out above, "Jesus" is actually a Mexican name and will derive originally from a transliteration into the romano-greek style on masculine nomenclature.
2. Aramaic - the language John Mark scribbled the first account of his life in, with the added bonus of using a Greek vocabulary wrenched into his Aramaic grammatical rules. Christianity is a Greek phenomenon.
3. All half serious biblical scholars believe in the notion of "Markan Primacy". That is that John Mark of Jerusalem (or some other kid, no real need to enquire) scribbled out the sayings of Simon (whom the Lord called Peter) some time shortly after the time of the deaths of both Peter and Saul of Tarsus. The said Mark was a disciple first of Saul (Paul) and then of Peter. Matthew is a copy of Mark which incorporated both some mythological stories of the deeds not only of Jesus but his alter ego- the risen Christ, or Jewish Messiah, and some weird nonsense from the Old Testament, which was supposed to convince a sceptical Jewish audience that Jesus was the promised Messiah. Matthew the gospel writer and Matthew (or Levi, son of Alpheus) cannot be and were not the same person. Absolutely no even half serious biblical scholar would believe anything else.
4. John emanates from Ephesus, then the most important port in the eastern Mediterranean, at the very earliest, in the second century AD. Only 9% of its content can be found in Mark (feeding of 5,000, passion narrative...) or the other so-called synoptic gospels (Matt and Luke). In short, John is a work of an oral tradition, or, better, mythology about a "risen Christ", a figment of the imagination of the epileptic mind of Saul of Tarsus.

You don't think that John was the so called "beloved disciple" then. What do you think about the Gnostic influences in John, especially the prologue?

 

[Dutto]

...........

Thy Larger Drinkers shalt be saved! :tinhat:

I doubt that statement a lot more than either"

• "There IS a God!" OR
• "There is NO God!"

Oh, wait a minute; as one of the LARGER drinkers I have to agree with it! Sorry!

 

[Rodcx500z]

Looking at the voting list again, what's eastern religion, can someone shed some light on this, should that not read, practising Mosques going muslim

 

[GerritT]

I have 2 bunnies. I feed them, water them, look after their health, take 'm to the vet for vaccinations for instance, clean the hutch daily, pet them, provide snacks before bedtime etc. Very normal imho.

God is doing a pretty **** job, looking at the state of the world.

 

[simon12]

Looking at the voting list again, what's eastern religion, can someone shed some light on this, should that not read, practising Mosques going muslim

I mean't the older religions from India, China, Japan etc ie Hindu, budist, comfutianism etc to be honest my lazyness in selecting the answers is well noted apologies to all.

 

[Dutto]

I think that this Thread is exactly why the subjects of "Religion", "Politics" and "Ladies I have shagged" are generally subjects that are avoided or banned in mess-rooms all over the world.

I remember being on one ship where an AB responded with "That'll be my sister's mate. She'll shag anyone." after another AB had finished his tale of derring do in Middlesborough.

The narrator had (fortunately) seen the resemblance between his recent amour and the rather large AB sat opposite; and decided to change her name!

Happy Days!

 

[simon12]

I have 2 bunnies. I feed them, water them, look after their health, take 'm to the vet for vaccinations for instance, clean the hutch daily, pet them, provide snacks before bedtime etc. Very normal imho.

God is doing a pretty s**t job, looking at the state of the world.

As Jesus said Satan is the god of this world.

 

[Clint]

Commendable...I do the same with my cats and dogs...and ultimately if they fall incurably ill...the sad goodbye at the vets.

 

[simon12]

Sorry it was Paul who decribed Satan as god of this world Jesus said lord.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Its a subject best left alone like politics

 

[An Ankoù]

It has turned up some very good conversations. Pleased to see that nobody has got out of hand and it's been a really good discussion.
Couldn't do that with an Arsenal versus Chelsea debate!

 

[Dutto]

You have a very different take on the good samaritan to me .........

That may be because I have lived and worked in countries that have many different laws and social mores than we have in the UK or even parts of Europe.

Here's two tales (perfectly true) of what I mean:

1. In Iran a lady who wasn't wearing knickers under her skirt leaned over a vegetable store in Tehran to select something for her dinner. A man digging a ditch in the road alongside noticed the lack of knickers, leapt out of his ditch, spread the lady across the vegetable stall and attempted to rape her. The stall-holder saw what was happening, hit the potential rapist with a 1 kilo weight and stopped the attempted rape. The stall-holder was taken to court and fined for assaulting the ditch digger; the lady was admonished in court for "enticing men" and the ditch digger was only called as a victim of the assault. The judge pointed out that the ditch digger was only doing what any red-blooded man would have done in the circumstances!
2. In Saudi Arabia a foreigner hired a taxi that was subsequently involved in an accident during the journey. The taxi driver successfully sued the man who hired the taxi for damages, his argument being that had the man not hired his taxi the accident would not have occurred.

There are many different aspects applied to the laws and social mores that apply as you travel around the world ...

... and a lot of them may not make sense unless you look at the conditions prevailing in the country at the time that the laws or social mores were introduced.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Your right with that An Ankou, but then again I am talking Liverpool and that is how easy it is to start a row, no offence meant An happy brewing

 

[Dutto]

.........

Couldn't do that with an Arsenal versus Chelsea debate!

Sorry, but I don't see how a debate between the fans of two mediocre southern teams could cause animosity!

Despair "Yes!" but not animosity!

 

[Rodcx500z]

Dutto I love this 2 mediocre southern teams, lets not go off topic

 

[simon12]

That may be because I have lived and worked in countries that have many different laws and social mores than we have in the UK or even parts of Europe.

Here's two tales (perfectly true) of what I mean:

1. In Iran a lady who wasn't wearing knickers under her skirt leaned over a vegetable store in Tehran to select something for her dinner. A man digging a ditch in the road alongside noticed the lack of knickers, leapt out of his ditch, spread the lady across the vegetable stall and attempted to rape her. The stall-holder saw what was happening, hit the potential rapist with a 1 kilo weight and stopped the attempted rape. The stall-holder was taken to court and fined for assaulting the ditch digger; the lady was admonished in court for "enticing men" and the ditch digger was only called as a victim of the assault. The judge pointed out that the ditch digger was only doing what any red-blooded man would have done in the circumstances!
2. In Saudi Arabia a foreigner hired a taxi that was subsequently involved in an accident during the journey. The taxi driver successfully sued the man who hired the taxi for damages, his argument being that had the man not hired his taxi the accident would not have occurred.

There are many different aspects applied to the laws and social mores that apply as you travel around the world ...

... and a lot of them may not make sense unless you look at the conditions prevailing in the country at the time that the laws or social mores were introduced.

Sorry I don't get your point are you saying I don't understand the context of the time when the good Samaritan was told?

 

[Dutto]

Sorry I don't get your point are you saying I don't understand the context of the time when the good Samaritan was told?

I'm saying that the laws and social mores of ANY country are dictated by the conditions prevailing at the time that they were made or introduced.

The parable of the Good Samaritan was told against a backdrop where the social mores of the time were such that he made himself liable for ALL of the injured man's responsibilities. In modern parlance "That took balls!"