All Grain Lager Help

[paintingken]

Having done several all grain IPA's I think I need to try a lager. I have a temperature controlled fridge and time on my hands, from what I've read these are the essentials.

First question is, what style and recipe?
May sound odd but I don't really drink lager much as I prefer hoppy IPA's. Partly due to the challenge and badgering from friends I would like to give it a bash.
I've had a couple of nice lagers, Sirens 'Santo' being a favourite as it tastes fairly hoppy/ sweet.

From research I see that hopping is not as straight forward but would rather avoid a very dry taste. I am not a fan of the white beers (tin hat at the ready)

Any recipe with guidance on fermentation temperature schedule would be useful.

I plan on it being a 20L batch and bottled.

 

[RichardM]

If your friends are badgering you to brew a lager why not ask them which styles of lager they prefer?
A quick google will find you plenty of advice on fermentation and conditioning, but basically, ferment at about 12C for twice as long as your IPA, finish with a diacetyl rest, raising the temp to about 18, then drop the temp to as low as your fridge will go for a couple of weeks, then bottle or keg as usual, but condition it for two or three times as long as you keep an IPA before trying it.

 

[foxbat]

Lager recipes are as simple as they get. The key to success is the process. A typical 5/6 gallon Czech pilsner recipe with a single infusion mash with enough Saaz so that you'll taste it might be:

97% Bohemian pilsner malt
3% Melanoidin malt (to give you a bit more rich sweetness and to make up for not doing a complicated decoction)
Enough Hallertau Magnum at 60 minutes to make up 30-40 IBU
30g Saaz at 10 minutes
Lots of a real lager yeast. e.g. the Urquell strain.

Ferment at 10-12C for 5 days, then raise slowly to 16-20 and hold for a total time of 3 weeks in the fermenter.

Keg it paying obsessive attention to the exclusion of oxygen. You can bottle but homebrew lagers are never as clean and crisp in bottles as they are in a corny. Leave for a month at 6C then serve.

 

[paintingken]

Lager recipes are as simple as they get. The key to success is the process. A typical 5/6 gallon Czech pilsner recipe with a single infusion mash with enough Saaz so that you'll taste it might be:

97% Bohemian pilsner malt
3% Melanoidin malt (to give you a bit more rich sweetness and to make up for not doing a complicated decoction)
Enough Hallertau Magnum at 60 minutes to make up 30-40 IBU
30g Saaz at 10 minutes
Lots of a real lager yeast. e.g. the Urquell strain.

Ferment at 10-12C for 5 days, then raise slowly to 16-20 and hold for a total time of 3 weeks in the fermenter.

Keg it paying obsessive attention to the exclusion of oxygen. You can bottle but homebrew lagers are never as clean and crisp in bottles as they are in a corny. Leave for a month at 6C then serve.

Thanks, I think I have read so many opinions that I have confused myself. This helps.

No dry hopping?

 

[paintingken]

If your friends are badgering you to brew a lager why not ask them which styles of lager they prefer?
A quick google will find you plenty of advice on fermentation and conditioning, but basically, ferment at about 12C for twice as long as your IPA, finish with a diacetyl rest, raising the temp to about 18, then drop the temp to as low as your fridge will go for a couple of weeks, then bottle or keg as usual, but condition it for two or three times as long as you keep an IPA before trying it.

Thanks Richard.

As much as I will be sharing it with friends (from a distance!) I want something I will enjoy. It was more the sweet over dry mouth feel I wanted to get right.

 

[foxbat]

No dry hopping?

Not the done thing for a traditional lager. Hops are there but they're not the focus.

 

[paintingken]

Hi @foxbat or any brewers of wisdom. I brewed my Pilsner and something is not right! Could you pinpoint where it may have gone wrong please?
I tried to follow your advice meticulously, I fermented to the temperatures in a controlled fridge.
It tasted nice at the bottling stage (the last dregs were not enough to fill a bottle)
The grain bill was as stated above. 2 sachets of Saflager W34-70 to ferment and yeast nutrient. Water treatment was followed but only suggested I needed CRS, Campden tablet and I use Clarity Ferm.
Not sure the above is the issue as I say, it tasted fine pre bottling. I had to bottle it as I don't yet use Corny kegs. I was as careful as I could be by capping each one as I went and not splashing it.

The Problem:
The after taste is lovely but the lager has a kind of sharp taste, I have an aversion to cider and I would say it has a slight wine/ cider taste. It's not horrible or undrinkable but is not right. I have had a couple of lager liking friends try it and they have said they like it but it's not Pilsner like.

Bit gutted as it took so bloody long and I don't really drink much lager.

Appreciate the feedback.

 

[smcc]

Brooklyn Lager is a fantastic beer looks a lot darker than a typical lager but an amazing beer. you can find the official clone recipe easily. Its not an easy brew to make but worth the effort

 

[foxbat]

Hi @foxbat or any brewers of wisdom. I brewed my Pilsner and something is not right! Could you pinpoint where it may have gone wrong please?
I tried to follow your advice meticulously, I fermented to the temperatures in a controlled fridge.
It tasted nice at the bottling stage (the last dregs were not enough to fill a bottle)
The grain bill was as stated above. 2 sachets of Saflager W34-70 to ferment and yeast nutrient. Water treatment was followed but only suggested I needed CRS, Campden tablet and I use Clarity Ferm.
Not sure the above is the issue as I say, it tasted fine pre bottling. I had to bottle it as I don't yet use Corny kegs. I was as careful as I could be by capping each one as I went and not splashing it.

The Problem:
The after taste is lovely but the lager has a kind of sharp taste, I have an aversion to cider and I would say it has a slight wine/ cider taste. It's not horrible or undrinkable but is not right. I have had a couple of lager liking friends try it and they have said they like it but it's not Pilsner like.

Bit gutted as it took so bloody long and I don't really drink much lager.

Appreciate the feedback.

What you're describing sounds a bit like acetaldehyde. It's not a flavour I've experienced in my beers but from what I've read it does fade with age.

 

[paintingken]

What you're describing sounds a bit like acetaldehyde. It's not a flavour I've experienced in my beers but from what I've read it does fade with age.

Fingers crossed that’s it. I will put them to one side for a while. Luckily I still have some black IPA to tide me over. I wonder if it’s best to leave them at fridge temp or wether I can just stash them in the garage?
Thanks.

 

[Surfingobo]

After bottling did you leave them somewhere warm to carb up for a couple of weeks? I find that all my bottle conditioned beers need 2 weeks at 20C or maybe 10 days at 23C to get rid of the green apple taste I get from the priming sugar.
I find that IPAs especially very hoppy ones I don’t notice it through the hops and can be drinking them much quicker.

 

[Darren Jeory]

Having done several all grain IPA's I think I need to try a lager. I have a temperature controlled fridge and time on my hands, from what I've read these are the essentials.

First question is, what style and recipe?
May sound odd but I don't really drink lager much as I prefer hoppy IPA's. Partly due to the challenge and badgering from friends I would like to give it a bash.
I've had a couple of nice lagers, Sirens 'Santo' being a favourite as it tastes fairly hoppy/ sweet.

From research I see that hopping is not as straight forward but would rather avoid a very dry taste. I am not a fan of the white beers (tin hat at the ready)

I'm not as advanced as you in terms of kit but I also fancy doing one and found loads of good recipes on the brewfather app including a pilsner urquell clone (Best lager ever!) Which I'm gonna have a swing at.

Why not meet them half way and do a kolsch?

Any recipe with guidance on fermentation temperature schedule would be useful.

I plan on it being a 20L batch and bottled.

 

[paintingken]

After bottling did you leave them somewhere warm to carb up for a couple of weeks? I find that all my bottle conditioned beers need 2 weeks at 20C or maybe 10 days at 23C to get rid of the green apple taste I get from the priming sugar.
I find that IPAs especially very hoppy ones I don’t notice it through the hops and can be drinking them much quicker.

I usually do with my IPA’s but this is a lager and conditioned at 6° for a month in the bottle.

 

[Surfingobo]

I usually do with my IPA’s but this is a lager and conditioned at 6° for a month in the bottle.

Yep, that doesn't take into account carbing up! You can carb at 12c as I assume you fermented at 12c? But you're probably talking another 3 or 4 weeks to carb up at that temp. Personally I would stick them at 20c for 2 weeks and then return to your lagering temp.

 

[Surfingobo]

For reference, W34/70 lists ideal fermentation temperature as 12-15c so if you have added priming sugar and then stored the bottles at 6c they are unlikely to have fermented the sugar!

 

[paintingken]

For reference, W34/70 lists ideal fermentation temperature as 12-15c so if you have added priming sugar and then stored the bottles at 6c they are unlikely to have fermented the sugar!

Good point, it's not as carbonated as previous efforts. As it's my first lager I was not 100% sure as there always appears to be about 15 ways of doing the same thing! I will be tucking them away in my 'warm spot' for a couple of weeks.Thanks

 

[Surfingobo]

Good point, it's not as carbonated as previous efforts. As it's my first lager I was not 100% sure as there always appears to be about 15 ways of doing the same thing! I will be tucking them away in my 'warm spot' for a couple of weeks.Thanks

Let us know how they go!!

 

[paintingken]

Let us know how they go!!

Will do, every days a school day.

 

[paintingken]

Well, the good news is that a few weeks in the warmth of my bathroom has sorted it out. It has more carbonation and more importantly tastes better with no 'sharp' taste. I have polled a few lager drinking mates with it and they love it. Thanks for the advice and I think @foxbat must have hit the spot with the acetaldehyde shout.

 

[foxbat]

Good to hear that it's all sorted and all your effort was worth it.