adjusting for poor efficiency

[hoppyscotty]

Not normally bothered about efficiency but the last few brews my efficiency has dropped a bit and am consistently 6 - 10 points down on OG. All beers have still been great (as far as I'm concerned at least) but about a percent down on ABV.

I have a Verdant Even Sharks Need Water NEIPA AG kit from the Malt Miller and is sized for a 19ltr batch. Since its a recipe kit I can't just add more grain to account for my poor efficiency so considering in plugging in a 15litre batch or around that into Grainfather to account for the low efficiency and aim to hit target numbers at a lower batch size.

I will need to iterate around the batch volume but if I assume a 10 point drop in OG then if I reduce batch volume in Brewfather until the OG is 10 points higher then would that compensate adequately?

Thanks.

 

[user 43495]

Batches of malt do vary in potential extraction rates. However, I usually work on the basis that 1lb crushed pale will yield 30 degrees of extract per gallon. Because of the method I use, I calculate that rather basing it on 10 galls, my usual brew length, there is going to be - estimating on the high side - 1 gal of trub and muck will be in with all that, so I calculate that way. As I usually expect to get at least 90 percent mash efficiency, I factor that in too. The late Dave Line reckoned that up to 20% of extract could easily be lost through inefficient sparging,and I take great care to ensure this is done as best as possible; which is why I use a sparging arm similar to that used by breweries. merely pouring sparge liquor over the grains won't suffice because the husks are constantly being turned over thus losing out on that extra potential. That's what I have found anyway. I have no experience at all in using these brew/grain father thingys; I've always brewed in the way you can see from the photos in my brewday. I have never had any issues. As Barbarella cooed after being serviced in the old-fashioned way, when her lover stated: "sometimes the old ways are the best".

 

[RichardM]

I don't know about other software, but Beersmith will let you enter you efficiency, it then takes that in to account when predicting your s.g.
Just because you have bought a kit it doesn't mean you can't add more pale malt or even DME to make up for your efficiency.

 

[dwhite60]

Think I would scale the kit down. Now, doing this, you can probably rest assured your efficiency will skyrocket and you'll end up with an imperial NEIPA.

I'd take maybe a half kilo from the kit, do a small mash biab with it, and see what my efficiency is. I'd make my decision then and carry on with my brew day.

Even doing this a day or two ahead you could just refrigerate the wort you've created until brew day and add it to the boil.

 

[foxy]

Not normally bothered about efficiency but the last few brews my efficiency has dropped a bit and am consistently 6 - 10 points down on OG. All beers have still been great (as far as I'm concerned at least) but about a percent down on ABV.

I have a Verdant Even Sharks Need Water NEIPA AG kit from the Malt Miller and is sized for a 19ltr batch. Since its a recipe kit I can't just add more grain to account for my poor efficiency so considering in plugging in a 15litre batch or around that into Grainfather to account for the low efficiency and aim to hit target numbers at a lower batch size.

I will need to iterate around the batch volume but if I assume a 10 point drop in OG then if I reduce batch volume in Brewfather until the OG is 10 points higher then would that compensate adequately?

Thanks.

Why not just order extra base malt along with the kit? Best to get your efficiency constant under your brewing belt so you have something to work with, and you can work out the grain needed. Where do you lose efficiency, grain crush, mash temperature and sparge. It is going to be what it is when all three things are addressed, BHE between 65 and 75% is where you will be.

 

[Redgrave_3]

Plenty of good suggestions. I would add that you could just boil for longer (post sparge) until you reach your target og then start your 60 min boil/additions.

 

[Hanglow]

I no sparge so am accustomed to losing efficiency, at least in higher gravity beers. Normally i would say, just add more grain to account for it, but as you are using a kit I would simply brew a smaller batch, if you can't add more base grain.




The benefits of no sparge in time, effort and reduced oxidation potential more than outweigh any efficiency gains from sparging, for me at least. You should still get very good efficiency from beers up to about 1.055 SG.


That beer looks like it is fairly strong at 7%, so if I were to brew it with my current process I suspect I would also have to either do a smaller batch or add more grain than comes in the kit.

 

[Clint]

You could sling some sugar at it.

 

[Michael Burnley]

I would be investigating why the efficiency has changed so much, I would start with the process and then the ingredients

 

[moto748]

I would be investigating why the efficiency has changed so much, I would start with the process and then the ingredients

This. The first question I would be asking myself is, why is my efficiency so low. I don't see the need to chase mega-efficiency, but have you got a figure for brewhouse efficiency? If your recipe implicitly assumes 70-75% efficiency but you are only getting 50-55%, then something is wrong with your process, I suspect.

I speak as someone whose brewing methods are probably one of the most basic on here, I don't have any pumps or sophisticated temp control. But even so, with care and small changes to my technique, I have seen my average efficiency go from about 55% to 69-72%, which I consider to be decent and acceptable. The beer has improved, too!

 

[hoppyscotty]

No idea why my efficiency is not where it should be. My mate has the same set up as me and we brew together and do the same and achieve different results so a bit odd.

i could have bought more base malt but was brewing today so didn’t have the opportunity.

i have considered adding DME butfor some reason I’m a bit averse to doing this. Feels like cheating somehow. I realise some beers require it and pr breweries donut but I’d rather get my process and technique down first. I was keen to brew this beer as close to the original as possible.

I ended up reducing batch size to 17ltrs from 18ltrs and hit the numbers. Also ended up with 18 litres in the fermenter so not too bad in the end.I’ll recalculate my efficiency again.

also paid a bit of extra attention to all steps of the process too, so taking extra care when mashing in, utilised the overflow on the BZ so maybe a bit of back to basics care and attention might have leaped too. I guess over time we can become a bit relaxed about what we’re doing and get a bit lazy with process. We’ll see what the resulting beer is like.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

 

[foxy]

No idea why my efficiency is not where it should be. My mate has the same set up as me and we brew together and do the same and achieve different results so a bit odd.

i could have bought more base malt but was brewing today so didn’t have the opportunity.

i have considered adding DME butfor some reason I’m a bit averse to doing this. Feels like cheating somehow. I realise some beers require it and pr breweries donut but I’d rather get my process and technique down first. I was keen to brew this beer as close to the original as possible.

I ended up reducing batch size to 17ltrs from 18ltrs and hit the numbers. Also ended up with 18 litres in the fermenter so not too bad in the end.I’ll recalculate my efficiency again.

also paid a bit of extra attention to all steps of the process too, so taking extra care when mashing in, utilised the overflow on the BZ so maybe a bit of back to basics care and attention might have leaped too. I guess over time we can become a bit relaxed about what we’re doing and get a bit lazy with process. We’ll see what the resulting beer is like.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

In your first post you mentioned you were using the Grainfather? Now you say Brewzilla. If it is the Brewzilla check to see if your temperature needs re-calibrating. If your temperature is out so will be your conversion, also helps to give a stir every 10 mins for the first half hour reduce hot and cold spots in the mash.

 

[Buffers brewery]

I’ve noticed that my Brewhouse efficiency takes a dive if I mash with oats. When I brew a “normal” pale ale I’ll get 80% ish BHE. When I do a NEIPA that includes oats I’m lucky if I get 70%. Just discovered from another post that it’s best to steep/mash oats with an equal quantity of base malt for 30 minutes between 40C and 50C before adding go the mash. I’m going to try that next time I do a NEIPA see it it improves BHE.

 

[foxy]

I’ve noticed that my Brewhouse efficiency takes a dive if I mash with oats. When I brew a “normal” pale ale I’ll get 80% ish BHE. When I do a NEIPA that includes oats I’m lucky if I get 70%. Just discovered from another post that it’s best to steep/mash oats with an equal quantity of base malt for 30 minutes between 40C and 50C before adding go the mash. I’m going to try that next time I do a NEIPA see it it improves BHE.

If you have bought your flaked oats from the HBS then there is no need to do any thing, just add them to your mash as they have already been gelatinised.

 

[Buffers brewery]

If you have bought your flaked oats from the HBS then there is no need to do any thing, just add them to your mash as they have already been gelatinised.

Does Tesco count?

 

[foxy]

Does Tesco count?

You will have to pre gelatinse shop bought oats. I just buy the HBS oats saves mucking about. Not saying it is wrong to use anything other than HBS oats just time saving. Just wanted to clarify that there is a difference between the two.

 

[Buffers brewery]

You will have to pre gelatinse shop bought oats. I just buy the HBS oats saves mucking about. Not saying it is wrong to use anything other than HBS oats just time saving. Just wanted to clarify that there is a difference between the two.

Good to know @foxy and thanks for the clarification. It was the one ingredient that I thought "I'll get that from the supermarket" only to discover that it's not that straight forward . I'm going to try the pre-steeping method just to see if it makes any difference. I'm sure there must be others like me that have just used porridge oats and wondered why BHE is effected

 

[hoppyscotty]

In your first post you mentioned you were using the Grainfather? Now you say Brewzilla. If it is the Brewzilla check to see if your temperature needs re-calibrating. If your temperature is out so will be your conversion, also helps to give a stir every 10 mins for the first half hour reduce hot and cold spots in the mash.

My bad, it’s Brewzilla, when I mentioned grainfather in my original post I meant brewfather.

 

[foxy]

My bad, it’s Brewzilla, when I mentioned grainfather in my original post I meant brewfather.

That's OK, but it is worthwhile just to check the temp and calibrate if the need be. Make sure you check the temperature by the side of the probe.