bobsbeer
Well-Known Member
Sad to hear the news that Nelson Mandela has passed away. A great man has gone.
A Great Man has passed away
- Thread starter bobsbeer
- Start date
Help Support The Homebrew Forum:
calumscott
Regular.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2011
- Messages
- 311
- Reaction score
- 32
I overuse the word "awesome" a lot.
But he really, genuinely was. Still is.
But he really, genuinely was. Still is.
dennisking
Regular.
A man of true dignity. RIP.
![BREWING THERMOMETER STICKERS ACCURATELY MONITOR FERMENTING BEER & WINE LIQUID TEMPERATURES 5PCS HOME BREW SPIRITS WINE LCD ADHESIVE [US]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/311DDjo2X3L._SL500_.jpg)
EskiBrew
Regular.
dennisking said:
+1
devexwarrior
Regular.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2013
- Messages
- 423
- Reaction score
- 302
He helped the peaceful transition post apartheid, though some of his later business dealings look a bit dodgy from a distance and his wife, Winnie was a nasty piece of work. I hope this doesn't descend into a Diana-like grief fest. I suspect the the BBC and other left-wing organisations will expunge his participation in terrorist activities in his youth. He was a man, not a god
narmour
Landlord.
Which came first, the oppressor or the one willing to strike back? a lot of people forget just how vicious the apartheid regime was. I don't condone violence, but I am at a loss as to how you get the attention of the world onto such a brutal, oppressive regime.
devexwarrior
Regular.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2013
- Messages
- 423
- Reaction score
- 302
History is always rewritten by the winners - My own speciality is Cold War history (MA from Kings). Apartheid era South Africa was without doubt a singularly unpleasant regime, but for NATO it provided a bulwark against Communism. Without the 'stability' of Apartheid in SA and Rhodesia the whole southern half of Africa might have been lost to the Communists - no doubt after civil war on the scale we saw at the time in Angola and have seen since throughout the region. The SA Defence Force were excellent soldiers - I have worked with many expat Saffas and they have all been of the highest calibre. The Rhodesians and South Africans had Special Forces units that were the peers of anything NATO had to offer.
Interestingly I know two people who worked with the British Military missions to Sierra Leone and they told me that all the locals who were old enough to remember said things had been better under Colonial rule.
Interestingly I know two people who worked with the British Military missions to Sierra Leone and they told me that all the locals who were old enough to remember said things had been better under Colonial rule.
Tim_Crowhurst
Landlord.
It seems to me that there's a huge difference between terrorism by a group like Al Quaeda, which seeks to impose its minority views on the majority, and a majority group using terrorism as a means of gaining fair treatment denied by an elite minority - especially when peaceful efforts to be treated fairly have been ignored.
Over the last 150 years there are many examples of peaceful protests which met with success, most prominently the Suffragettes, Gandhi's efforts to liberate India, the US civil rights movement, and the LGBT rights movement. There are also examples of instances where violence has been used for the same purposes, like the American Civil War, the Troubles and WWII, but in these cases the violence was either unsuccessful (the Troubles ended through peaceful negotiation after a cease-fire) or happened only when peaceful methods of resolving the situation had been exhausted. So the use of violence to gain or protect human/civil rights is most likely to occur when peaceful methods fail because the dominant side refuses to negotiate or compromise. That certainly describes the White minority government of Apartheid South Africa.
Over the last 150 years there are many examples of peaceful protests which met with success, most prominently the Suffragettes, Gandhi's efforts to liberate India, the US civil rights movement, and the LGBT rights movement. There are also examples of instances where violence has been used for the same purposes, like the American Civil War, the Troubles and WWII, but in these cases the violence was either unsuccessful (the Troubles ended through peaceful negotiation after a cease-fire) or happened only when peaceful methods of resolving the situation had been exhausted. So the use of violence to gain or protect human/civil rights is most likely to occur when peaceful methods fail because the dominant side refuses to negotiate or compromise. That certainly describes the White minority government of Apartheid South Africa.
Cononthebarber
Landlord.
He was a top bloke and I'll be raising a glass to him tonight :
TRXnMe
Landlord.
He was a terrorist, had he done what he did in Northern Ireland we'd have different views of him.
He became a great statesman wen aparthied fell.
I assume the world will remember the latter because the politicians don't like being known as people who deal with terrorists.
As to how else he could have dealt with the SA Government, Ghandi had set a pretty decent example of passive resistance.
He became a great statesman wen aparthied fell.
I assume the world will remember the latter because the politicians don't like being known as people who deal with terrorists.
As to how else he could have dealt with the SA Government, Ghandi had set a pretty decent example of passive resistance.
Louthepoo
Active Member
Nelson Mandela admitted to giving the order to place bombs in public places killing hundreds of innocent men women and children. Not the actions of a saint. After his spell in prison he seemed to come out a different person, the one everyone chooses to remember. I'm not going to jump on the grieving bandwagon, but remember the whole story.
BarnsleyBrewer
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2008
- Messages
- 30
- Reaction score
- 1
Louthepoo said:
Such a shame about his death but when you see things like this it makes you wonder... :hmm:
Would it have been the same if Bin Laden would've chosen peace instead of terror towards the end?? :wha:
Not being disrespectful but wondering?
RIP Nelson..
BB
Tim_Crowhurst
Landlord.
I'll remember him as a man who learned from his mistakes. I can't think of many other politicians who've shown that particular ability.
Possibly, but there's one big difference between Mandela and Bin Laden: their purposes.
Bin Laden's life goal was the subjugation of others to his particular brand of Islam, which views violence against the kuffar as not only acceptable but necessary. Wahhabi Islam takes the concept of jihad, originally meant as a spiritual struggle against one's own demons, and turns it into a commandment to make war against non-Muslims.
Mandela's life goal was the opposite: to win respect, political equality and emancipation for his people. Violence was not integral to his goals is it was for Bin Laden.
BarnsleyBrewer said:
Possibly, but there's one big difference between Mandela and Bin Laden: their purposes.
Bin Laden's life goal was the subjugation of others to his particular brand of Islam, which views violence against the kuffar as not only acceptable but necessary. Wahhabi Islam takes the concept of jihad, originally meant as a spiritual struggle against one's own demons, and turns it into a commandment to make war against non-Muslims.
Mandela's life goal was the opposite: to win respect, political equality and emancipation for his people. Violence was not integral to his goals is it was for Bin Laden.
Similar threads
