60 min vs 90 min boils

[The Baron]

Hi Agent I use about 0.5g for 10 litres but some use more I believe. From what I have read it is mainly used to stop the browning discolouration in the industry but it also stops the oxidation taste that you can get too

 

[The Baron]

Some brewers also use it when dry hopping to stop oxidation at that point too

 

[Sadfield]

Sure. For stronger, keepier brews.

Not necessarily. For me short boils are a bit bland. I bit like making toast, if it's barely colours it just tastes of hot bread.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Just done my first 30 minute boil on a pale ale I've brewed many times. Just used Brewfather to adjust for water and hopping to achieve same target numbers as before and I have not noticed the difference in any aspect of flavour / mouthfeel or any aspect. I'm surprised at people taking about 90 minute boils for Pale Ales.

I can understand boiling longer for colour but is that really a thing? sugar/maltose caramelises at a much higher temperature than 100 degrees so you're not getting any caramilasation - nowhere near unless you're getting it from burning on the heating elements...but even then modern all in one systems have low density elements. I suspect the darkening in colour you're seeing in longer boils is to do with concentration and not caramelisation - but I've had no issues achieving dark colours in all the darker and maltier beers I've brewed to date with a 'standard' 60 minute boil.

I always thought the move to lower boiling times was more to do with modern malts and malting processes meaning less boiling is needed to drive off compounds that contribute to off flavours. Makes much more sense to me.

 

[Sadfield]

I can understand boiling longer for colour but is that really a thing? sugar/maltose caramelises at a much higher temperature than 100 degrees so you're not getting any caramilasation

A) There's maillard reactions, which is different to caramelisation.

B) Regarding, no caramelisation? What temperature is the heat transfer surface at? By the above reasoning scorched elements wouldn't be possible at mashing or boiling temperature. Yet I've seen it reported.

Not noticing or valuing a difference doesn't mean one doesn't exist, or that it can't be identified by others.

I'm always suprised by how little people care about flavour stability in their expensively hopped beers.

 

[WM7793]

As someone once said on these forums, many folks just want to make beer. There are also people who want to make the best possible beer, using best practices.

 

[Agentgonzo]

It constantly amuses me that "people who do the same as me make the best beer" and "people who disagree with me 'just make beer'".
I don't get why people get so upset at other people's process.

 

[clib]

Not necessarily. For me short boils are a bit bland. I bit like making toast, if it's barely colours it just tastes of hot bread.

I don't get blandness. I use a variety of malts, hops and yeasts to provide flavour and bitterness.i wouldn't say that longer boils have a big flavour impact in the scheme of things. In my experience anyway. Its more about the ingredients I think.

 

[Sadfield]

i wouldn't say that longer boils have a big flavour impact in the scheme of things.

Which implies that it does have a degree of impact. Often the quite vehement claim is, 30 minute boils makes no difference and anything more is unnecessary.

30 or 90 minutes are both valid, but they clearly aren't the same, there's pro's and cons. And as evident by many commercial recipes directly available to homebrewers, it's not something widely adopted outside of homebrewing. If at all. And that can't be out of habit, given the energy saving.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

So my next brew is going to have nearly 83% pilsner malt. Dare I do a 30 min boil?

Hopefully you guys will have a range of opinions so I can critically evaluate lol

 

[Agentgonzo]

So my next brew is going to have nearly 83% pilsner malt. Dare I do a 30 min boil?

If you use nearly 83% pilsner malt, you'll just be making beer.
To make the best possible beer, you should use 78% pilsner malt

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Sorry AG I've no idea what you're on about

 

[WM7793]

It also amuses me when people assume they know what other people may be doing without having that knowledge prior to speaking out.

 

[Agentgonzo]

It also amuses me when people assume they know what other people may be doing without having that knowledge prior to speaking out.

100%. You've just described every internet argument ever!

 

[Donegal john]

If you use nearly 83% pilsner malt, you'll just be making beer.
To make the best possible beer, you should use 78% pilsner malt

78.347% actually.

 

[crescent city Mike]

https://crescentcitybrewtalk.com/wort-boiling/
This should be of interest to this thread.

 

[Sadfield]

Yeah, you don't need to boil at all, but it'll taste different and have less shelf life. It's a sliding scale of positive and negative factors over time, that doesn't terminate at arbitrary points like 30', 60' or 90'.

 

[foxy]

So my next brew is going to have nearly 83% pilsner malt. Dare I do a 30 min boil?

Hopefully you guys will have a range of opinions so I can critically evaluate lol

If you want to know the answer to a brewing problem/question go directly to Pro Brewer. You will get your answer regarding pilsner malt too.
https://www.google.com/search?q=how...0l2j33i21.28189j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Weizenberg]

Boiling is often not paid enough importance.

A number of reactions take place, such as hop isometization, formation of aroma and colour compounds, increased solubility of certain substances, enzyme inactivation, elimination of microbes, protein molecules and protein-tannin complexes.

This process can be fraught with problems.

Excessive protein coagulation can reduce the foam stability. On the other hand when unsatisfacotry, it leads to colloidal instability in the finished beer.

When thinking about reasons for boiling, the Strecker aldehydes are of special significance. These can negatively affect the flavour stability of the beer and are reduced by evaporation.

Older systems had an evaporation rate of 15% but the required energy and potential thermal stress were too high. Nowadays systems work with an evaporation rates of 4-6%, below 4% is considered too low (atypical aroma notes).

Its a much bigger topic than meets the eye. Here is a useful table of the systems used. Ours would probably be classed as dynamic.

PS: my boil time is 60 mins. With boil-simmer-boil, 10-40-10 minutes. Typically with Pilsner malt.

Hope this helps ...

 

[Smileyr8]

30 minutes every time unless like is stated above I'm making something special that requires a longer boil, big beers, old ales etc.