AG51 Orval-ish Belgian Specialty Ale

strange-steve · Jan 13, 2017

This is a bit of an impromptu brew day because the wife is heading to London for a couple of days

If i get a chance tonight I might stick the mash on overnight, otherwise I'll brew this in the morning.

I've been wanting to brew an Orval clone for a long time but it seems every time I plan it the HB stores don't have what I need. @Hoddy kindly sent me a bottle which was fermented with the Yeast Bay Saison/Brett blend and it was fantastic so I've been culturing the yeast from that and by now should have a pitchable amount.

I know blends aren't ideal for culturing or reusing but I thought I'd give it a go as an experiment. It won't be a proper Orval clone but I reckon it'll still be good. If it turns out too brett-y then awesome, if it is too saison-y then I might add some brett later.

I'm using a well known Orval grain bill and hop schedule:

Orval-ish Belgian Specialty Ale

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 21
Total Grain (kg): 5.1
Total Hops (g): 145
Original Gravity (OG): 1.057
Final Gravity (FG): 1.010
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 6.2 %
Colour (SRM): 11
Bitterness (IBU): 39
Boil Time (Minutes): 90

Grain Bill
----------------
4.000 kg Pilsner (78%)
0.500 kg Caramunich II (10%)
0.500 kg Granulated Sugar (10%)
0.100 kg Caramunich III (2%)

Hop Bill
----------------
25 g Magnum (9.8% AA) @ 90 Minutes
35 g Styrian Golding (3.8% AA) @ 15 Minutes
25 g Styrian Golding @ 0 Minutes
60 g Styrian Golding @ 7 Days (Dry Hop)

Notes
----------------
Single step Infusion at 67ÃÂ°C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 19ÃÂ°C with cultured Yeast Bay Saison/Brett Blend

markcc · Jan 13, 2017

Be interested to see how this turns out. I've used the Yeast Bay Saison/Brett blend twice and didn't get much brett flavour out of it either time.

Tanzanite · Jan 13, 2017

:lol::lol::lol:

strange-steve said:
This is a bit of an impromptu brew day because the wife is heading to London for a couple of days If i get a chance tonight I might stick the mash on overnight, otherwise I'll brew this in the morning.

I've been wanting to brew an Orval clone for a long time but it seems every time I plan it the HB stores don't have what I need. @Hoddy kindly sent me a bottle which was fermented with the Yeast Bay Saison/Brett blend and it was fantastic so I've been culturing the yeast from that and by now should have a pitchable amount.

I know blends aren't ideal for culturing or reusing but I thought I'd give it a go as an experiment. It won't be a proper Orval clone but I reckon it'll still be good. If it turns out too brett-y then awesome, if it is too saison-y then I might add some brett later.

I'm using a well known Orval grain bill and hop schedule:

Orval-ish Belgian Specialty Ale

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 21
Total Grain (kg): 5.1
Total Hops (g): 145
Original Gravity (OG): 1.057
Final Gravity (FG): 1.010
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 6.2 %
Colour (SRM): 11
Bitterness (IBU): 39
Boil Time (Minutes): 90

Grain Bill
----------------
4.000 kg Pilsner (78%)
0.500 kg Caramunich II (10%)
0.500 kg Granulated Sugar (10%)
0.100 kg Caramunich III (2%)

Hop Bill
----------------
25 g Magnum (9.8% AA) @ 90 Minutes
35 g Styrian Golding (3.8% AA) @ 15 Minutes
25 g Styrian Golding @ 0 Minutes
60 g Styrian Golding @ 7 Days (Dry Hop)

Notes
----------------
Single step Infusion at 67ÃÂ°C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 19ÃÂ°C with cultured Yeast Bay Saison/Brett Blend

Is this the Orville type your talking about

strange-steve · Jan 13, 2017

markcc said:
Be interested to see how this turns out. I've used the Yeast Bay Saison/Brett blend twice and didn't get much brett flavour out of it either time.

That's interesting, Hoddy's beer had quite a lot of brett funk. I wonder if the age/condition of the the yeast would have an impact, because if the sacch strain got a head start for whatever reason then the brett flavours would be more noticeable. The characteristic funkiness of brett comes mostly from the conversion of sacch fermentation byproducts which is why 100% brett beers are much cleaner.

strange-steve · Jan 13, 2017

Tanzanite said:
:lol::lol::lol:

Is this the Orville type your talking about

He may be a green duck with a hand up his arse but he makes a damn fine ale

Tanzanite · Jan 13, 2017

You forgot the funky secret ingredient in orville beer , yes it starts with D and ends with t cant say what it is because its a secret ?

braziliain · Jan 13, 2017

Tanzanite said:
You forgot the funky secret ingredient in orville beer , yes it starts with D and ends with t cant say what it is because its a secret ?

A Doughnut? Jam or plain?

Orval was one of my faves last time I visited Ninove and was well recommended by the locals. Fingers crossed for you that it comes out as nice.

Hoddy · Jan 13, 2017

strange-steve said:
That's interesting, Hoddy's beer had quite a lot of brett funk. I wonder if the age/condition of the the yeast would have an impact, because if the sacch strain got a head start for whatever reason then the brett flavours would be more noticeable. The characteristic funkiness of brett comes mostly from the conversion of sacch fermentation byproducts which is why 100% brett beers are much cleaner.

That was a pretty fresh vial when I used it. Maybe only a few months old. And I direct pitched it, no starter, into 24 litres of wort. Pushed the max limit on the rye and boat loads of tropical hops. A bit of a massive bit of luck that my first recipe build for Brett worked out so well. The more I drink it the more I love it.

Happy to do a swap on your cultured up Brett saison when it's ready Steve.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

JFB · Jan 13, 2017

My brother in law was absolutely disgusted with me when I ordered him an orval in Bruges. He said it was the worst beer he had ever tasted!! so he was relieved when I got him back on the Juplier !!

strange-steve · Jan 13, 2017

JFB said:
My brother in law was absolutely disgusted with me when I ordered him an orval in Bruges. He said it was the worst beer he had ever tasted!! so he was relieved when I got him back on the Juplier !!

He's a lost cause I'm afraid. Drinking Jupiler in Belgium is a bit like going to Italy and getting a frozen pizza from Tesco.

I'll always have a soft spot for Orval, it was my first ever taste of Trappist beer and my first ever brett beer. Wonderful stuff :drink:

YeastFace · Jan 13, 2017

Orval is my desert island beer. I've tried aging some before but always succumb to temptation.

strange-steve · Jan 13, 2017

Well so much for an impromptu brewday, looks like I'm gonna have to postpone this till Sunday. I hate when life gets in the way of a brew :evil:

JFB · Jan 13, 2017

strange-steve said:
He's a lost cause I'm afraid. Drinking Jupiler in Belgium is a bit like going to Italy and getting a frozen pizza from Tesco.

I'll always have a soft spot for Orval, it was my first ever taste of Trappist beer and my first ever brett beer. Wonderful stuff :drink:

To be fair to him that was the only one he turned his nose up at. We had one great night where me him the misses and some American dude sunk a load of Ichtegem's grand cru 2013 over a epic fussball tournament.

CraftyZA · Jan 14, 2017

Curious, how long to you ferment with brett?
I'm planning a brett beer this year, and the idea is to add the brett during secondary. I will attenuate primary with mangrove jacks french saison dry yeast, then rack into new clean carboy, then add the brett. Just not sure how long secondary should be. Secondary will be much milder so will leave very little headspace in second fv. Some say more than a month, some say 2 or 3 weeks. Brett is a lot more thorough, so need to be sure that it is done before bottling.

strange-steve · Jan 14, 2017

CraftyZA said:
Curious, how long to you ferment with brett?
I'm planning a brett beer this year, and the idea is to add the brett during secondary. I will attenuate primary with mangrove jacks french saison dry yeast, then rack into new clean carboy, then add the brett. Just not sure how long secondary should be. Secondary will be much milder so will leave very little headspace in second fv. Some say more than a month, some say 2 or 3 weeks. Brett is a lot more thorough, so need to be sure that it is done before bottling.

Brett works much faster when added at the start of fermentation so I'll probably leave for about 3 weeks. It's hard to know when adding during secondary. Jamil's Orval clone recipe says a month in the secondary but I've heard of people leaving it for 2 or 3 months.

CraftyZA · Jan 14, 2017

strange-steve said:
Brett works much faster when added at the start of fermentation so I'll probably leave for about 3 weeks. It's hard to know when adding during secondary. Jamil's Orval clone recipe says a month in the secondary but I've heard of people leaving it for 2 or 3 months.

I thought about using boiled dme to take up headspace. The brett will have some work along with the diacityl consumption from the sacc.
Thing is, when using brett, the idea is funk. Thats why i want to add it as secondary. To maximize funk.

strange-steve · Jan 14, 2017

I wouldn't worry too much about the headspace personally, I've kept beers for lengthy periods and lots of headspace without any problems. Just leave the lid in and try not to peek.
You're right I love the really funky brett flavours too, I had originally planned to use it in the secondary but Geterbrewed have been out of brett B for months.

strange-steve · Jan 14, 2017

JFB said:
To be fair to him that was the only one he turned his nose up at. We had one great night where me him the misses and some American dude sunk a load of Ichtegem's grand cru 2013 over a epic fussball tournament.

Yeah I was only jesting with my previous comment, I can completely understand why someone wouldn't like it on first tasting, it's a little unusual to say the least. I think brett is an acquired taste but well worth the effort.

JFB · Jan 14, 2017

strange-steve said:
Yeah I was only jesting with my previous comment, I can completely understand why someone wouldn't like it on first tasting, it's a little unusual to say the least. I think brett is an acquired taste but well worth the effort.

I thought it was a good comment:lol:

strange-steve · Jan 14, 2017

This is my 2.5L starter ready for tomorrow, I think it's fair to say the yeast is alive and raring to go. Smells great too.

AG51 Orval-ish Belgian Specialty Ale

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