No rinse no foam sanitisers

Libigage · Sep 30, 2024

Hi All, I'm trying to move away from the expensive cleaners and sanitisers that are currently on the market aimed at us homebrewers. I m looking for something to use in my bucket blaster so ideally it needs to be non foaming. I have purchased some oxy active as a cleaner, but haven't tried it yet. What could I use as a no rinse no foam sanitisers? Is the oxy active OK to use on kegs and a fermzilla?
Advice greatly appreciated

Buffers brewery · Sep 30, 2024

Not answering your question but I've stopped using Oxy products as they all (I haven't found one that doesn't) contain fragrances that might be difficult to completely remove.

MashBag · Sep 30, 2024

Rid yourself of the bucket blaster too.

Truck wash (TFR) and a bog brush. Takes seconds. Rinse thoroughly.

peebee · Sep 30, 2024

MashBag said:
Truck wash (TFR) and a bog brush. Takes seconds. Rinse thoroughly.

Eee ... you do make it sound lovely

@Libigage,
Generic "Sodium Percarbonate" (in coated prills so they don't deteriorate) are usually cheaper, especially in bulk amounts, and is exactly what's in these "oxygen cleaners" but without the unnecessary junk (perfumes, etc.).

It's not "no-rinse". It's harmless after being mixed for 1/2 hour, but is highly alkaline and stinks of damp washing machines ... I don't understand why people insist it is "no-rinse". If used hot (40-60C, and you should as it makes it extra effective) the stuff does create foam!

Galena · Sep 30, 2024

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BlueBay-Aq...=1727707122&sprefix=sodium+per,aps,92&sr=8-16

MashBag · Sep 30, 2024

peebee said:
Eee ... you do make it sound lovely

Eeee. It really is. But for the full effect you need to use a new bog brush.

marshbrewer · Oct 1, 2024

Videne.

No rinse, doesn't foam. Cheap enough given the dilution ratios.

Cheyne_brewer · Oct 1, 2024

Astonish oxi isn’t perfumed - it’s what I use. It also contains washing soda so is more effective at cleaning than neat percarbonate I find.

Unless you can get hold of phosphoric acid (as used in bottled sanitisers) you might have to keep shelling out. The cheap alternative but definitely not no-rinse is a 5% solution of cheap bleach.

MashBag · Oct 1, 2024

marshbrewer said:
Videne.

No rinse, doesn't foam. Cheap enough given the dilution ratios.

That's an interesting choice.
Do you use that after... ?

aolcot · Oct 1, 2024

Another +1 for just buying sodium percarbonate in bulk for your bucket blaster.. I have a diy bucket blaster and use sodium percarbonate which works well. Need to rinse them though as ideally you'd be giving the inside a keg of quick rinse/dose of sanitiser as well before storing

Libigage · Oct 1, 2024

Thanks for the replies, as I have astonish oxy, which I haven't used yet, but it does seem unscented, I'll try that but any more suggestions on a non foaming sanitiser.

LeeH · Oct 1, 2024

Saniclean is the no foam version of star san.

https://www.geterbrewed.com/five-star-saniclean-473ml/

hoppyscotty · Oct 1, 2024

How expensive do you think they are once you dilute them? I buy a 5kg bucket of VPW which is pricy upfront, but it lasts ages. I've not working out how expensive it is per dosage but it will be pence per dose rathe than pounds, if you observe the recommended dilution rate and never had an infection.

Also why are you looking to cut corners the THE most important job/responsibility us brewers have?

There are assorts of other additives in domestic cleaning products other than just scents...all the stuff that they advertise on TV about their performance at lower temps...you have no idea what they're putting in there and how can you ben sure of the actual content of the active ingredient which is usually Sodium Percarbonate?

peebee · Oct 1, 2024

Cheyne_brewer said:
... It also contains washing soda so is more effective at cleaning than neat percarbonate I find ...

That labelling all seemed to happen to all sellers (of percarbonate) very recently.

Percarbonate breaks down to carbonate all the time, and I think someone must have got into trouble for not including sodium carbonate (washing soda) in the list of contents? (In 15-30 minutes a solution of percarbonate rapidly and completely breaks down to carbonate ... and hydrogen peroxide! That's why percarbonate is so much better than sodium carbonate.).

NobbiesShout · Oct 1, 2024

Purchase Sodium Percarbonate from here with super service, 5 KG for £27.99

https://mistralni.co.uk/products/sodium-percarbonate-ultra-pure?variant=213251753

peebee · Oct 1, 2024

NobbiesShout said:
Purchase Sodium Percarbonate from here with super service, 5 KG for £27.99

https://mistralni.co.uk/products/sodium-percarbonate-ultra-pure?variant=213251753

That's a dodgy bunch (quoting from their Web site):

oxygen content (13%) which is equivalent to 27.5% Hydrogen peroxide

Might be? But very misleading as you never use it "dry". At a "reasonable" concentration of, say, 10g a litre it would be a lot less than 1% hydrogen peroxide in solution.

I'm trying to use Hydrogen Peroxide as a "no-rinse" sanitiser, diluting 12% down to 6%. It's hazardous stuff even at that concentration! Get it on your hands and it quickly tells you if you have any nick in your skin. The NHS won't use it in hospitals anymore, it treats human tissue (cells) exactly like bacteria, fungal or viral cells. And don't get it in your eyes!

I'll try again at 3%, the typical concentration for a peroxide sanitiser. But it's insidiously much like plain water; I need some kind of indicator with it. It's a much more powerful sanitiser than bleach, iodine, "Starsan" and the like. It's not the oxygen that does the damage, it's the breakdown leading up to oxygen being given off (such as the hydroxyl free radicles).

I wouldn't like to think just how much quantity of sodium percarbonate you'd need in a litre of water to create a 3% solution of H2O2.

That said, Sodium Percarbonate makes a wonderful cleaner!

brewsby · Oct 2, 2024

peebee said:
I wouldn't like to think just how much quantity of sodium percarbonate you'd need in a litre of water to create a 3% solution of H2O2.

It's around 95g/L of the pure stuff or 105g or so based on the quoted 88% purity for the product listed. 50-60p / L if you're buying in large-ish quantities so it's a reasonable route if you're wanting to use a lot of peroxide it those sorts of concentrations. I can't say I'm that interested in using it for sanitising brewing equipment though - more the sort of thing you'd mix up at 1.5-2% to clean off a patio or something.

MashBag · Oct 2, 2024

peebee said:
That labelling all seemed to happen to all sellers (of percarbonate) very recently.

Percarbonate breaks down to carbonate all the time, and I think someone must have got into trouble for not including sodium carbonate (washing soda) in the list of contents? (In 15-30 minutes a solution of percarbonate rapidly and completely breaks down to carbonate ... and hydrogen peroxide! That's why percarbonate is so much better than sodium carbonate.).

Could be better still with since sodium hydroxide in the mix

peebee · Oct 2, 2024

MashBag said:
Could be better still with since sodium hydroxide in the mix

Grrrr!

marshbrewer · Oct 2, 2024

MashBag said:
That's an interesting choice.
Do you use that after... ?

Idophor sanitizer is fairly common in the brewing and dairy industries.

No rinse no foam sanitisers

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