Beer engine with corny setup questions

peebee said:

I actually wrote up my brewery build here. But it is 4 years old and it has had a number of tweaks since. I'll update once the "HLT Reserve" is complete and working (I do not use the RIMS any more).

An up-to-date schematic goes:
View attachment 33433
Looks complicated, but covers everything. Feel free to mine the information to find anything that maybe useful to you.

I use floating extractors ("Cask Widge" floats) in place of the dip-tube in the Cornies. Made easily detachable for cleaning (they need it from time to time).

I do ferment in the dispensing keg (up to about SG1.045) so obviously have no bother with yeast sediment in Cornies.

My "secret weapon" for brewing perfect "cask" "Real Ale" is Chevallier barley malt. In fact it produces better "Real Ale" than you can buy in a Pub! Takes a little bit of practice to handle the stuff right, but the results are terrific (my opinion; some folk wont like it!). Documented my recent experiences with this malt here.



Flip, appears we've just been stuffed into Covid-19 lockdown again. Still, I have my order in for 25kg Chevallier barley malt. Tesco's Web site has crashed probably because of the sudden load. Looks like I'll be going hungry again, but I can still get plastered with all this home-brew!

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Ajdpilot said:

When you say you ferment in the dispensing keg but have no bother with yeast in cornies, just wanted to check:
You do use cornis?
Have the regular post setup?
And rack straight to the keg from primary fermenter?

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peebee said:

Really drifting off-topic now. Still, it's your thread and your choice!


I do go from fermenter direct to keg, but use conical fermenters where this a normal step (commercially there might be a "conditioning tank" acting as an intermediary or "secondary" fermenter). Some folk go from primary fermenter (bucket) direct to keg anyway. But where I was saying "ferment in the dispensing keg" …

You've missed the important bit! There's no "racking" (I use 12V pumps only now anyway, so I was initially perplexed by "racking"!), the dispensing keg is the primary fermenter! I'm venturing into a keg only zone (no hand pumps), but try >this<. That should keep you in reading matter for a bit!


Cleaning: I'm still working on this (mostly laborious manual methods at moment). CIP (clean-in-place) with pumps (which need to be powerful) and rotating spray balls.

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peebee said:

Really drifting off-topic now. Still, it's your thread and your choice!


I do go from fermenter direct to keg, but use conical fermenters where this a normal step (commercially there might be a "conditioning tank" acting as an intermediary or "secondary" fermenter). Some folk go from primary fermenter (bucket) direct to keg anyway. But where I was saying "ferment in the dispensing keg" …

You've missed the important bit! There's no "racking" (I use 12V pumps only now anyway, so I was initially perplexed by "racking"!), the dispensing keg is the primary fermenter! I'm venturing into a keg only zone (no hand pumps), but try >this<. That should keep you in reading matter for a bit!


Cleaning: I'm still working on this (mostly laborious manual methods at moment). CIP (clean-in-place) with pumps (which need to be powerful) and rotating spray balls.

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Ajdpilot said:

… I'm assuming you don't have any issue with the pumps aerating your beer (particularly when pumping from dispensing keg to corny keg?)
I'm guessing you also open the lid or vent somehow to stop any glugging? …

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peebee said:

Hum. I'm still misleading you on that "side" subject?

The dispensing keg is the fermenter. The dispensing keg is a Corny. There is no transfer after moving the beer from boiler to dispensing keg, so certainly no "glugging". It was a fast output technique and not one I'd use for "general" brewing; for that I back to more "normal" practices.

As for flexible dip-tubes: I don't like cross-linking forums, but to avoid writing this stuff again --- Floating dip tube for corny - Page 3 - Home Brew Forum. Moving over to 6mm ID silicon tubing might (I've not tried it) avoid the need to use the "Increaser" fittings (5mm milk hose - 10mm OD - is very difficult to fit, and does need to be tailored to the right length or it jams on the keg sides). The hose clips are stainless steel BTW.

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Ajdpilot said:

Sorry, that was my bad. I was meaning kettle to keg. Do you have any problems with the pumps aerating?

Thanks for the float info. Again, very helpful

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Ajdpilot said:

Ignore that, clearly havent had enough coffee yet.

I mean when your brewing a general beer and do transfer from a fermenter to a keg (or do you never do that anymore?)
I'm interested in the use of a pump to transfer and thinking how it affects the beer. I'm assuming the top of the fermenter will need to be open to air to stop a vacuum or glugging [Yes], but also wondering if the rotating motion of a pump causes any sort of aeration within the beer? [No, where would the air come from?]

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peebee said:

Thank you. It was written to be none too self-opinionated and has the input (peer review?) of many (including Graham Wheeler, who would not like to be linked with if he was still with us, but I always like to think his "restrained" abusiveness aimed at the developing article did suggest maybe I was on the right track?).

As for "nozzles: I think there is only two basic designs, short as preferred down south, and long or "swan-neck" as preferred up north. I switched to short, but being a from northern manufacturer (Angram) they haven't completely let go of the swan-neck:
View attachment 33345
"Sparklers" should only be attached to swan-necks so they can be inserted beneath the surface of served beer. As such they do not aerate the beer, they only knock out CO2 to create head. Ironically it's the short type (no sparkler) that introduces most air because the beer pours a distance into the glass.

You must not have a fixed opinion of sparklers. Some beers they work for and create fine heads, some beers are trashed by them with flavour and body vanishing. If using a sparkler, always test first! Always repeat the test every few days because beers change. I never use sparklers but always have good heads, though my pumps do have solenoid valves fitted (to preserve the beer in the pump, which would otherwise spoil) and they create a tight restriction that might be knocking out CO2?

Maintaining such low CO2 "top pressure" is very difficult because commonly used regulators simply will not hold to low pressures (you are doing well to get them to 10PSI). I advocate these:
View attachment 33346
Look the same? The left-hand one (even BES sell them) regulate 50 - 150mb (about 3/4 - 2PSI). They are quite adequate. The right-hand one (rare, but available from some chicken and game bird breeders) regulate 20 - 300mb and might be useful at times (I haven't started using mine)? Note no despicable "POL" attachments, all BSP.

(EDIT: I always forget to add: Those regulators must be "secondary", or second down the line, because they only handle 1-16BAR input: DO NOT connect them directly to a gas cylinder.)

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private4587 said:

Hi Peebee i have just fitted the type of regulator shown on the left (the 3/4-2psi one) when connected to my modified KK the gauge doesn't show much above 1psi. The keg is quite low on product would this be the reason for not attaining the 2psi. I would have thought that it should reach this has i have set it to max on the output with an input of approx 40psi

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Ajdpilot said:

Ignore that, clearly havent had enough coffee yet.

I mean when your brewing a general beer and do transfer from a fermenter to a keg (or do you never do that anymore?)
I'm interested in the use of a pump to transfer and thinking how it affects the beer. I'm assuming the top of the fermenter will need to be open to air to stop a vacuum or glugging, but also wondering if the rotating motion of a pump causes any sort of aeration within the beer?

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peebee said:

If you want a pressure gauge to measure 2 PSI or less then I doubt you can afford it - or you wont want to pay that kind of money for a bit of beer serving bling. I've got a digital gauge that is supposed to measure 1PSI fairly accurately, to be honest I haven't tried.

Trust the regulator. They are pretty reliable, designed principally for controlling explosive gases! (Propane/Butane). When the regulator isn't attached to a keg you can hear the CO2 coming through. If output is just attached to a plain tube, you can stop the gas coming out by putting the tube in your mouth and blowing (you can easily blow 2PSI, 150mbar, into a small diameter pipe; best if you just take my word for it! Or just stick your finger over the end of the tube to stop the flow.).

Managing these very low pressures is why I recommend those low cost LPG regulators. It's nearly impossible otherwise.

40PSI, near enough 3BAR, is ample input pressure for the regulator, they can handle up to 16BAR.

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peebee said:

If you want a pressure gauge to measure 2 PSI or less then I doubt you can afford it - or you wont want to pay that kind of money for a bit of beer serving bling. I've got a digital gauge that is supposed to measure 1PSI fairly accurately, to be honest I haven't tried.

Trust the regulator. They are pretty reliable, designed principally for controlling explosive gases! (Propane/Butane). When the regulator isn't attached to a keg you can hear the CO2 coming through. If output is just attached to a plain tube, you can stop the gas coming out by putting the tube in your mouth and blowing (you can easily blow 2PSI, 150mbar, into a small diameter pipe; best if you just take my word for it! Or just stick your finger over the end of the tube to stop the flow.).

Managing these very low pressures is why I recommend those low cost LPG regulators. It's nearly impossible otherwise.

40PSI, near enough 3BAR, is ample input pressure for the regulator, they can handle up to 16BAR.

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Vandalay said:

1 psi = 51.7149 mmHg, you can use a blood pressure monitor gauge to measure really low pressures at an affordable prize. ...

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Mavroz said:

I am slowly given up on bottling completely now since I bought and refurbed my beer pump/engine.

All my brews go into 10 litre bags, in turn then go into boxes. No need for kegs, corny kegs etc etc, no faffing venting them etc.
The bags inflate slightly with Co2 in the first couple of weeks of conditioning. No air gets back into the bag during draw off, they collapse under vacuum. Ale always has a head of Co2 around it.
This is without any priming sugar for extra carbonation.
This is vented off by either removing the tap slightly or opening the tap and lightly pressing to let the excess Co2 out. I have 8 X boxes stored now plus one one the tap for drinking.
Taste, appearance is as good as anything that I have had in a pub. (Recipe, brewing skill dependent). Will probably never go back to bottles or any other method other than bags in boxes.
I use a sparkler nozzle,if not i will not get a head or a decent looking pint out of the pump.

Not sure about microbe build up? New one on me. Hygiene is the same process as any other food hygiene in your kitchen. Clean it!
My pump stays on for maybe a week at a time before rinsing through, then with line cleaner every 4 weeks.
I remove the sparkler every night and clean the swan neck with water and sanitiser..... Never had microbe problems.

The pump I have has a non return valve built in and the bag connector has a shutoff valve when removed from the box. I have had no need for inline valves etc.

Good luck

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MashBag said:

I am also interested in this, but Tbh I think @Mavroz posted that 4 years ago, and we haven't seen much of him recently.

My bag connector should be here soon

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MashBag said:

It had just landed. Very nice. Good fit. Good design. Next brew goes in bags defo

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