Your views on how the Tories have handled Coronavirus.

[MyQul]

Of course he is and he has no attention to detail. Keir for PM now.

MyQul for PM now! I'd do 12 briefings then retire to the comfy after dinner speech circuit

 

[lancon]

Why do we have to keep going over the same ground. The crisis isn't over and it won't be for a long time, figures today will be different figures in a years time. Covid 19 is a virus similar to the flu, millions around the world die each year of the flu, we have a vaccine for the flu we don't have one for Covid 19. The flu vaccine is hit and miss it is a guess which strain of flu will be the predominant strain during flu season, all those who die when the guess is wrong, are they unnecessary deaths?
There is a saying, arguing with a fool makes two fools, so I will leave the floor to you.

COVID-19 is not like the flu, just because Trump said it doesn't make it true. If anything the virus is like the common cold, another coronavirus, and guess what.. there's no vaccine and no immunity!!

I did read 3 to 5% are now immune and the figure has got to be between 55 to 70%. There looks like there will not be any saving vaccine so the elderly and those with underlying health problems are the ones who will bear the brunt. UK is crap as is with a lot of Europe, compact living does not help at all. New Zealand has a population of less than 5,000,000 and is bigger than the UK so far easier to control. Victoria where I live has a population of about 6,000,000 and is larger than England, so again easier to control unfortunately not a lot can be done, lock down cannot carry on indefinitely.
There you go again, the virus is so new that they don't even know if you get immunity!!

Excess deaths you just look at past records of deaths, irrelevant of what cause, and then see how many more there are this year.

 

[An Ankoù]

Excess deaths you just look at past records of deaths, irrelevant of what cause, and then see how many more there are this year.

As Chippy said: Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Foresight is an equally marvelous thing. Strange that we learn nothing from either of them.

Victoria where I live has a population of about 6,000,000 and is larger than England, so again easier to control unfortunately not a lot can be done, lock down cannot carry on indefinitely.

Victoria may be bigger than England and the population density of the bigger cities isn't so high: about 500 people per square Km in Melbourne (a bit less in Sydney NSW) compared with 1500 in London and 4000 in Birmingham, but even so, the low death toll in all of Oz is just over 100 and that's amazing. So what have the Australians done that we haven't? Don't bother telling us because we won't listen to that, either. And I'm not convinced that "Scorched Earth Scott" is a particularly enlightened leader either (although these days, and by comparison, he really does shine). It beats me. Australia seems to have got off lightly.
And I'm very happy about that, by the way. Certainly wouldn't wish it otherwise.

 

[Dutto]

In Post 588 I laid out facts and the supporting evidence. I only had one comment as per below ...

A bit different from the police statement, a minor breach and it would have been unfair to charge him in retrospect.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-lockdown-rules-say-durham-police#maincontent

I give you two very simple facts:

1. The original reference was gleaned from the well known Labour supporting newspaper The Telegraph.
2. The disclaimer posted by Foxy was gleaned from the well know Tory supporting newspaper The Guardian.

Come on Foxy - please get a grip!

When The Telegraph reports something that can be construed as "Anti-Tory" the Editor must feel like I did when I had a root-canal job done on an eye-tooth in Saudi Arabia, without anaesthetic!

Also, a "minor breach" doesn't equate to innocence it means that the law has been broken and someone is guilty. It's on a par with:

• I smoked cannabis but didn't inhale.
• It wouldn't have gone any further, even if I hadn't been caught.
• I had sex with the lady but it was meaningless because I still love you. (Try running that one past you patner and see what happens!)

I could go on and on with the examples, but at the end of the day a rule has been broken and someone must (normally) pay the price; no matter who their friends are or how powerful they think they are.

 

[Pirate_Pete]

As Chippy said: Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Foresight is an equally marvelous thing. Strange that we learn nothing from either of them.

Victoria may be bigger than England and the population density of the bigger cities isn't so high: about 500 people per square Km in Melbourne (a bit less in Sydney NSW) compared with 1500 in London and 4000 in Birmingham, but even so, the low death toll in all of Oz is just over 100 and that's amazing. So what have the Australians done that we haven't? Don't bother telling us because we won't listen to that, either. And I'm not convinced that "Scorched Earth Scott" is a particularly enlightened leader either (although these days, and by comparison, he really does shine). It beats me. Australia seems to have got off lightly.
And I'm very happy about that, by the way. Certainly wouldn't wish it otherwise.

Well I was going to tell you, but as you won't listen.
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Here we went from Scotty telling us on a Friday that there was nothing to worry about and he was going to the footy on Sunday.
To Sunday, when Scotty didn't go to the footy and announce a heap of measures.
Meanwhile I'd spent the weekend reading news from overseas thinking WTF is he doing.
I've said before that on the Sunday I went to the beach. There were not many people there and I'd been prepared to go home if there were.
I spoke to a couple of people who i would consider quite intelligent. Both said it was nothing, only a "touch of flu".
But really the banning of flights from China was maybe a biggy. Making people self isolate for 14 days when returning from overseas another.
There were a couple of **** ups. Care home where nearly 20 residents died after contracting it from a worker.
Allowing people to disembark the Ruby Princess cruise liner was another. One women from there walked into one of our centres to have a blood test.
She brazenly told the receptionist she should be isolating. She was shown the door pretty quick.
I think it's more to do with the government listening to experts and heeding advice more than anything.
If only they'd listen to the experts more often.

How Australia's COVID-19 lockdown prevented 35,000 cases

 

[foxy]

In Post 588 I laid out facts and the supporting evidence. I only had one comment as per below ...



I give you two very simple facts:

1. The original reference was gleaned from the well known Labour supporting newspaper The Telegraph.
2. The disclaimer posted by Foxy was gleaned from the well know Tory supporting newspaper The Guardian.

Come on Foxy - please get a grip!

When The Telegraph reports something that can be construed as "Anti-Tory" the Editor must feel like I did when I had a root-canal job done on an eye-tooth in Saudi Arabia, without anaesthetic!

Also, a "minor breach" doesn't equate to innocence it means that the law has been broken and someone is guilty. It's on a par with:

• I smoked cannabis but didn't inhale.
• It wouldn't have gone any further, even if I hadn't been caught.
• I had sex with the lady but it was meaningless because I still love you. (Try running that one past you patner and see what happens!)

I could go on and on with the examples, but at the end of the day a rule has been broken and someone must (normally) pay the price; no matter who their friends are or how powerful they think they are.

Doesn't matter where, or which paper the police statement came from, it is the police statement where it said that no charges would be laid.
If someone, anyone, gets arrested by the police and not charged does that mean there should still be some retribution?
As I posted if a charge had been laid against Cummings then he should step down. Police took no action so that should be enough. It is what it is no amount of debating will alter it so move on.

As Chippy said: Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Foresight is an equally marvelous thing. Strange that we learn nothing from either of them.

Victoria may be bigger than England and the population density of the bigger cities isn't so high: about 500 people per square Km in Melbourne (a bit less in Sydney NSW) compared with 1500 in London and 4000 in Birmingham, but even so, the low death toll in all of Oz is just over 100 and that's amazing. So what have the Australians done that we haven't? Don't bother telling us because we won't listen to that, either. And I'm not convinced that "Scorched Earth Scott" is a particularly enlightened leader either (although these days, and by comparison, he really does shine). It beats me. Australia seems to have got off lightly.
And I'm very happy about that, by the way. Certainly wouldn't wish it otherwise.

Just press the ignore button simple as that.
Why has Vietnam had nil deaths? Being the next door neighbour of China helps, as does South Korea's proximity to North Korea, when you have neighbours like these they are in a continual state of awareness and preparedness of what can happen.
Australia and New Zealand are islands a long way from the mainstream countries of the world, the lock downs implemented by the governments have been successful as has the quarantine of Aussies returning back. As I have said more than once, it still isn't over we have to come out of lock down, if it is gradual the national health authorities will be able to cope but there will be a lot more deaths.

COVID-19 is not like the flu, just because Trump said it doesn't make it true. If anything the virus is like the common cold, another coronavirus, and guess what.. there's no vaccine and no immunity!!

I didn't say it was like the flu but similar, in the fact that those who die of the flu are in a similar group which succumb to Covid 19 aged, overweight, unfit respiratory problems and other underlying health problems.

 

[lancon]

Why do we have to keep going over the same ground. The crisis isn't over and it won't be for a long time, figures today will be different figures in a years time. Covid 19 is a virus similar to the flu, millions around the world die each year of the flu, we have a vaccine for the flu we don't have one for Covid 19. The flu vaccine is hit and miss it is a guess which strain of flu will be the predominant strain during flu season, all those who die when the guess is wrong, are they unnecessary deaths?
There is a saying, arguing with a fool makes two fools, so I will leave the floor to you.

I didn't say it was like the flu but similar, in the fact that those who die of the flu are in a similar group which succumb to Covid 19 aged, overweight, unfit respiratory problems and other underlying health problems.

I would have thought it fairly obvious that people with conditions that compromise their 'normal' health would be at a disadvantage in their body being able to withstand the stresses of the virus. Though it doesn't explain the noted male/female nor the BME disparities, or the developing appearance of the child related syndrome that is now being seen.
Significantly flu isn't always the same in this, Spanish flu predominantly, 99% of working age and over half 20-40 year old were the victims.
Every year about 290,000 to 650,000 people die due to influenza globally, with an average of 389,000.
In England & Wales 5 year average for flu & pneumonia 50.8 per 100,000, for COVID19 587.4 per 100,000, and that obviously is over 1 year.

Doesn't matter where, or which paper the police statement came from, it is the police statement where it said that no charges would be laid.
If someone, anyone, gets arrested by the police and not charged does that mean there should still be some retribution?
As I posted if a charge had been laid against Cummings then he should step down. Police took no action so that should be enough. It is what it is no amount of debating will alter it so move on.

Police have said that they don't charge retrospectively for anyone. They also said that they would have told him to turn around if they had stopped him on his journey. A few high profile cases in UK where there had been a discovery of breaches but no charging/arresting/fining caused resignations and/or apologies given. These were people that were not with COVID19 symptoms and not living in a household with someone with COVID19 symptoms. And it must be noted that it was the government ministers who were calling for them to go, the same people who want to now move on.

 

[trueblue]

Doesn't matter where, or which paper the police statement came from, it is the police statement where it said that no charges would be laid.
If someone, anyone, gets arrested by the police and not charged does that mean there should still be some retribution?
As I posted if a charge had been laid against Cummings then he should step down. Police took no action so that should be enough. It is what it is no amount of debating will alter it so move on

Read post 640 for a comprehensive explanation of why he wasn't charged, under the current legislation he would have only been charged if he refused to go home. The bottom line is he helped write the rules we are under and broke them when the sh!t hit the fan they found an exception in the rules that really did not apply but the whole government spin machine was put into action churning out the same rhetoric but failing to answer specifics. Don't forget his 30 mile trip to make sure his eyesight was OK with a young child in the car, really. There was a high ranking policeman on the radio yesterday saying his actions have undermined all the work everyone has done and is making the work of his officers harder. If it had been anyone else in the government they would have been sacked but this guy has a powerful grip on the PM, think puppet and puppet master.

 

[Shirley Bassett]

The Conservative are doing Fantastic with their handling of Coronavirus.

They‘ve followed the science from day 1 and nicely lined up a bunch of scapegoats.

The fact that they’ve now started to disregard the science and advice, they seem perplexed that the scientists have bitten back.

Item 1 on tomorrow’s COBR meeting agenda is:

How do we out smart a bunch of eminent professors, PhD’s etc.

 

[Dutto]

I see that yet again a political animal has admitted breaching the lockdown rules!

This person (an MP no less) didn't deny the offence or wait to be sacked; just admitted the wrongfulness and resigned!

Shame on Rosie Duffield, Labour MP for Canterbury for breaching the lockdown rules ...

... but well done Rosie Duffield for accepting that she had committed an offence and resigned.

I don't advise anyone to hold their breath to see if anyone associated with the Tory Party follows Rosie's example!

 

[lancon]

The Conservative are doing Fantastic with their handling of Coronavirus.

They‘ve followed the science from day 1 and nicely lined up a bunch of scapegoats.

The fact that they’ve now started to disregard the science and advice, they seem perplexed that the scientists have bitten back.

Item 1 on tomorrow’s COBR meeting agenda is:

How do we out smart a bunch of eminent professors, PhD’s etc.

https://www.researchprofessionalnew...ns-informed-not-led-by-science-says-vallance/
When the government say that they are led by science they are being somewhat disingenuous, a number of options are given, action to be taken and consequence of that action, and it is for the government to decide which option.

 

[MyQul]

According to YouGov the Government have joint (with Trumps Republicans ) second lowest approval rating for their handling of the C-19 crisis. Well done Boris

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/interna...03/17/perception-government-handling-covid-19

 

[Cheshire Cat]

According to YouGov the Government have joint (with Trumps Republicans ) second lowest approval rating for their handling of the C-19 crisis. Well done Boris

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/interna...03/17/perception-government-handling-covid-19

Can the rating be less than zero?

 

[MyQul]

Can the rating be less than zero?

Not sure but It looks like The Tories and the Republicans are looking to test the theory

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I knew that Boris would crash and burn but I take no pleasure in 40,000 deaths so I wish he could have done a proper job.

 

[MyQul]

I knew that Boris would crash and burn but I take no pleasure in 40,000 deaths so I wish he could have done a proper job.

I think a lot of people knew BJ would crash and burn. BJ & DC make a formidable team at winning elections. But once they've won the war they have to win the peace, i.e governing well. That's not something they are good at

 

[johncrobinson]

I try to see the best in people regardless of personal politics.
However the butchers bill both here and in USA shames both some of the richest and most technologically advanced nations on earth.
Some years ago i lost my family due to a mixture of old age and illness, It affected me for years afterwards.Imagine the feelings of those that have lost loved ones due to covid.
The very idea that their loss and grief was down to incompetence must be too painfull to bear.

 

[DavidHatton]

Watched Have I got news for you, just after Cummings went on his road trip, was waiting for maybe Ian or Paul to mention Cummings and his new take on sightseeing.

For me they are full of well educated folk who generally don't input much to real issues, Jacob Reese Mogg, brilliantly educated but didn't see much of that brain power when **** hit the fan, he is very good at historically witty put downs.

Not sure if anybody had any real ideas early on, but what is the point of knowledge and wisdom in some politicians if when as I said **** hits, they just moonwalk into the shadows of parliment.

Please feel free to shed light on my point as I was working all through the lockdown, so might have missed a meeting..

 

[Dutto]

I presume that many of you will remember when Boris's Government was telling us on TV that twenty thousand deaths would be seen as a "good result".

I presume that the latest figure of 40,000+ deaths is regarded as a "not very good result" and wonder how many people have to die in the UK before the Government will admit that the number of deaths is a "catastrophic result" ...

... for which they are solely responsible?

 

[Dutto]

Sorry to come back so soon, but I've just read BBC News!

Headline read "Plan dropped for all primary pupils back in school" and there is a quote in there from the leader of the Head Teachers Union that sums up the whole of Boris's Government performance throughout this crisis.

"The 'ambition' to bring back all primary year groups for a month before the end of the summer term was a case of the government over-promising something that wasn't deliverable."

I rest my case.