Your views on how the Tories have handled Coronavirus.

[Rodcx500z]

I know i said i wouldn't comment on this thread again but its hard, were has the spirit of this great nation i was born in gone and it is a great nation i will always believe that, i was brought up labour old labour then came blair thats when my views changed, i am not right wing either, the trouble with politics is finding the best liar the one who can convince a nation his or her lies work in the best interest of the people, the austerity chickens may have come home to roost but there is a job to do the inquest comes later, so lets stop bashing come together and get this job done in true British spirit, finally to anyone i upset with my rant a few days ago i sincerly apologise and i mean that

 

[Dutto]

.......
As I have said I am not a Tory but brought up old style Labour not the left wing type of the current lot or the Blair scenario of new Labour.

......

Er ..."... not the left wing type ..." eh? So not the type that brought in the NHS and nationalised industries back in the 1940's and 50's then.

I think we have a closet Liberal in our midst! :hat: That's the Party that formed an alliance with the Tories and voted for the Austerity Programme.

BTW, "... or the Blair scenario of new Labour.". Mea Culpa. I even once voted for him once!

 

[An Ankoù]

May I remind everyone that back on the 16th March (over two weeks ago) the Director General of the World Health Organisation told the whole world that the only way to get on top of this new virus was "Test, Test and Test"

Is this director a medical professional himself? If so, is he known as Dr WHO?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Again, this is another massive Government lie. We have the biggest chemical manufactures in Europe. Robert Preston investigated this claim buy Gove the other day.

See this is why our political debate is screwed. You're getting very angry based on "investigation" that's an unsourced quote from an anonymous source, in response to an unknown question from a political journalist whose only scientific qualification is reading Wikipedia for 5 minutes.

That's not journalism, that's propaganda. If you want to get angry, be angry with the so-called journalists who are manipulating you.

As someone who has actually done some of this stuff for real and has followed the news fairly closely, I can't work out what's happening with the test situation based on the current media. So if I can't, then I'd suggest you don't have enough information to have an opinion one way or the other. But I think you can be sure that all the easy stuff is being done, and smart people are doing their best to do the difficult stuff, anyone suggesting there are easy answers at this stage is just peddling snake-oil.

There does seem to be a specific shortage of swabs, and you can imagine that the rest of the supply chain is being overwhelmed. While the companies have a certain amount of spare capacity it's nothing like what is needed in this unique situation, and there's certainly nobody paying for them to maintain the kind of massive surge capacity that would be needed. But if you think the answer is a phone call to Immingham then you don't understand how this stuff works. Some of these reagents are very specialist, I used to use some enzymes where 1ml cost the price of a small car.

High-throughput genetic screening that can deliver thousands of tests per day is a complex mix of molecular biology and robotics, and there's four main companies in the West that do it - Abbott and Hologic in the US, Roche in Switzerland and Qiagen in Germany (although the holding company is Dutch). None in the UK. So if you're screaming that the UK should ban any exports of PPE and medical kit when our own people need them, then your logic means that we should be cut off from any source of high-throughput testing. We're all in this together.

There are various other companies that make smaller-scale kit but in terms of maximising the productivity of finite trained staff, you need those high-throughput machines. They work on the same business model as computer printers, they have "official" reagents that you can only get from the manufacturer, other reagents may work or they may not, and with lives at stake do you want to take that risk? Or do you have time to test whether the unofficial reagents work properly or not? Particularly when the official documentation for tests specifies exactly what you use - if you ran out of A4 in this example you wouldn't be allowed to just cut up some A3 paper, it would no longer be an official test.

I see zero understanding of those kinds of issues by Peston and can only conclude he's got an agenda or is just utterly out of his depth. He's making a negative contribution right now, so should be ignored.

You should pay more attention to eg the Roche boss, I'd suggest he knows a bit more about it :
"The sheer demand for tests is vastly outpacing supply" (20 March)
"at the moment, capacities are limited" (23 March)

 

[Mr_S_Jerusalem]

Is this director a medical professional himself? If so, is he known as Dr WHO?

Lol brilliant

 

[chthon]

Tories, liberals, labour, socialists, Flemish nationalists, ...

What people should learn is to start rejecting ideologies.
What people should learn is to look around and accept reality.

I must say that this crisis helps discriminate (in the sense of recognising) people in society. Most people can be swayed to do good. Those who still are playing political games or games for financial gains are evil. I am pretty sure everybody starts to recognise the people who should be cut after the crisis.

 

[Dutto]

See this is why our political debate is screwed. ....

....

....

You should pay more attention to eg the Roche boss, I'd suggest he knows a bit more about it :
"The sheer demand for tests is vastly outpacing supply" (20 March)
"at the moment, capacities are limited" (23 March)

Er ... one problem with all this information.

Me, a mere pensioner of limited intelligence and very few qualifications (none of them medical) knew that there was an outbreak of what would become known as Covid-19 many weeks before the 20th March indicated above.

By the 20th March my Spring holiday had been cancelled, I had rescheduled our Channel Tunnel crossing to September, the money for the hire of an apartment in France had already been repaid into my Visa account, flights for the family had been cancelled, medication and supplies had been sourced and my wife and I had already started isolating ourselves for a two month period.

So, if I could do that, why did the UK Government not put in place the required elements for testing, even before the requirements to "test, test, test" were given by the World Health Organisation on the 16th March?

This Government have shown breathtaking incompetence in the way they have handled this and other aspects of the pandemic. As can be expected, the UK general public, especially the ones on "the frontline" will pay the price!

When I have to agree with a sentiment being expressed by Mr Trump that criticises the initial actions of the UK Government, I know that we are in serious trouble; and no excuses can be put forward.

 

[pms67]

Any mere mention that the Gov or even better (or worse) that Boris isn’t doing everything they should be and people are “disgusted” “outraged”
It’s pathetic, we are all entitled to our views, who cares about left or right, either the people in charge are competent or not.
If Corbyn was in the hot seat what a laugh it would be watching the Boris fanatics jumping on him for not acting sooner.
(I’m an SNP voter)
Just to add fuel

 

[An Ankoù]

Tories, liberals, labour, socialists, Flemish nationalists, ...

What people should learn is to start rejecting ideologies.
What people should learn is to look around and accept reality.

I must say that this crisis helps discriminate (in the sense of recognising) people in society. Most people can be swayed to do good. Those who still are playing political games or games for financial gains are evil. I am pretty sure everybody starts to recognise the people who should be cut after the crisis.

A philosopher and an optimist. I had almost given up hope. :hat:

 

[An Ankoù]

Er ... one problem with all this information.

Me, a mere pensioner of limited intelligence and very few qualifications (none of them medical) knew that there was an outbreak of what would become known as Covid-19 many weeks before the 20th March indicated above.

By the 20th March my Spring holiday had been cancelled, I had rescheduled our Channel Tunnel crossing to September, the money for the hire of an apartment in France had already been repaid into my Visa account, flights for the family had been cancelled, medication and supplies had been sourced and my wife and I had already started isolating ourselves for a two month period.

So, if I could do that, why did the UK Government not put in place the required elements for testing, even before the requirements to "test, test, test" were given by the World Health Organisation on the 16th March?

Spot on. As soon as Italy locked down it was clear that France would lock down and Spain and the UK. I cancelled our trip to see our son and advised him to get out of Madrid three weeks before it was closed- he didn't. I bought an extra pack of boggies long before they were sold out in Melbourne and got two big orders of malt in before shutting the pubs put pressure on the homebrew suppliers. It doesn't need a crystal ball.

 

[foxy]

Again it's access to opportunity that leads to success. You can have all the will in the world but if you cant access the opportunities your not going to go anywhere. If you do better academically your going to have better opportunities. Why do people with more money send their children to university? Why do certain minorities people priorities education above everything else. Why do certain charities across the world push for female education in poorer parts of the word. How for example can you get the best paid jobs if your poorly educated. Are you telling me a you need less education to say, become a chemical engineer than a check out operative?

This isnt about blame. Some people have more access to the opportunites than others. If those people with less access can get a small leg up to be on on an equal footing to be able to access those opportunites that will do equally well. Despite all the crap things that New Labour did (like get involved in Iraq) it's widely acknowledge that one of the best things they did was the sure start programme. A programme that helped the most disadvantaged children and parents

You make it sound like opportunities are only for the well educated or something you borrow from the library. An opportunity is open to everyone, it isn't something that has a neon light flashing overhead with opportunity here.
Some folk just see an opportunity to make some money and have a go. A good project would be to check out some of the self made men/ women in the UK who didn't have a privileged education. Alan Bond over here was a sign writer and noticed how quickly he was changing signs for house sales before jumping into property to get his start. Another multi millionaire over here owns Carpet Court, can't read or write an ex sales rep when he got an order he would get the customer to write the sale into the book.
Phil Briscoe from the west midlands, another sales rep who is now a multi millionaire in the UK . Opportunities are there for people from all walks of life, it doesn't discriminate.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Can i just say this virus does not reconize politics or who is in power it does not give a f--k, i just listen to the advise being given and do what i think is best for my family, i have stayed in, i have not seen my grand daughter for 3 weeks my mum in law whom i love dearly she is great, my kids are still working and do the shops for us and yes they are fearful, it has cost my daugter a trip to Amsterdam for her birthday and to her credit she has written that money off she as a holidays booked for Tenerife in june Portugal july, these are abta protected but the way things are going is any bodies guess, just do what you think is right stay in and stay safe

 

[pms67]

Wow
Life isn’t all about being a multimillionaire
Is it........?
Mine certainly isn’t

 

[foxy]

Wow
Life isn’t all about being a multimillionaire
Is it........?
Mine certainly isn’t

No, the discussion was about opportunity and whether it is open to everyone.

 

[Oneflewover]

You make it sound like opportunities are only for the well educated or something you borrow from the library. An opportunity is open to everyone, it isn't something that has a neon light flashing overhead with opportunity here.
Some folk just see an opportunity to make some money and have a go. A good project would be to check out some of the self made men/ women in the UK who didn't have a privileged education. Alan Bond over here was a sign writer and noticed how quickly he was changing signs for house sales before jumping into property to get his start. Another multi millionaire over here owns Carpet Court, can't read or write an ex sales rep when he got an order he would get the customer to write the sale into the book.
Phil Briscoe from the west midlands, another sales rep who is now a multi millionaire in the UK . Opportunities are there for people from all walks of life, it doesn't discriminate.

Sorry pal that's codswallop. Yes opportunity does present itself to everyone, and some people from disadvantaged backgrounds do make a success of their lives - kudos to them. But please don't pretend that opportunity is not presented much more frequently to those who have resources, connections, influence and education. And that those people are not much, much better placed to take advantage of an opportunity when it is presented.

 

[foxy]

Sorry pal that's codswallop. Yes opportunity does present itself to everyone, and some people from disadvantaged backgrounds do make a success of their lives - kudos to them. But please don't pretend that opportunity is not presented much more frequently to those who have resources, connections, influence and education. And that those people are not much, much better placed to take advantage of an opportunity when it is presented.

As I said quite a few posts ago it is up to the individual what they want out of life, some are happy to take it as it comes. Others want to change their life, doesn't matter where, or what background you come from. If you have the will to change something then you can. You don't throw the towel in and say its only for the better connected, better educated and resources, it isn't.

 

[pms67]

As I said quite a few posts ago it is up to the individual what they want out of life, some are happy to take it as it comes. Others want to change their life, doesn't matter where, or what background you come from. If you have the will to change something then you can. You don't throw the towel in and say its only for the better connected, better educated and resources, it isn't.

Of course you are right to a certain degree but an individual’s circumstance will no doubt play a part in the majority of cases, yes there will always be exceptions ( the people you mention) that’s why they are writing books on the matter and shouting from the rooftops about it!
Not everyone’s life is a turnaround movie story, the large majority of people with a disadvantaged start do not turn into multi millionaires, the odds are too great and more often than not they end up crushed with the weight and pressures of life

 

[foxy]

Not everyone’s life is a turnaround movie story, the large majority of people with a disadvantaged start do not turn into multi millionaires, the odds are too great and more often than not they end up crushed with the weight and pressures of life

Not saying everyone's life is a movie story and you are right the large majority of those with a disadvantaged start in life will not turn into millionaires, and equally neither will all the more advantaged and better educated.
Not everyone can see an opportunity when it presents itself, as I said earlier it doesn't discriminate. But saying the odds are to great and the pressure of life is crushing, is putting anyone who thinks that way right behind the 8 ball. It is a really uninspiring way of looking at things..

 

[Dutto]

TOTALLY OFF SUBJECT BUT ... all this talk of "opportunity" has reminded me of a tale I heard many years ago about a Church Warden.

The Church Warden worked for many years with the same Vicar at St Mary's and kept the church and its fabric in tip-top condition. Finally, the Vicar retired and a young go-getter of a Vicar arrived to take over the parish.

On his first day, the new Vicar handed the Church Warden a list that told him the Hymn Numbers and where to put the markers in the church Bible for the various Readings that he planned for the next service. The Church Warden was totally flummoxed and said to the new Vicar "I'm sorry sir, but I can't read or write. The old Vicar used to do these things for me."

The new Vicar was incensed! "I'm sorry." he said "but a prestigious church like St Mary's really needs a Church Warden that can read and write. I'm sorry but I will have to let you go." The Church Warden was too shocked to complain and went home to his lodgings where he rented a room off a widow and her young son.

He arrived at his lodgings and explained the situation to the widow before surprising her by also explaining his plans. "I've taken a long time to get home." he said "On the way I was looking for a shop to buy a packet of cigarettes to steady my nerves and discovered that between here and St Mary's there isn't a single shop." His landlady listened and wondered where the conversation was going. "The thing is," said the Church Warden "if you and me got married, I could convert the front room of the house into a small shop. That way, I would have employment and you could do all the accounting and stuff like that for the shop. What do you say?"

The lady agreed, they got married, the ex-Church Warden converted the front room and they opened their little shop; which was a roaring success. Over the next five years the couple built up enough reserves to purchase a second shop that the wife ran on her own and five years after that they opened a third shop that the adopted son ran.

Life was sweet. One day the man went to the Bank to deposit the takings from the three shops when the Bank Manager requested that he step into his office. In his office, the Bank Manager explained how the surplus cash in the man's current account could be put to much better use if it was invested instead of just sitting there in a current account. The man protested that he would have to consult his wife and finally confessed that the brochures that the Bank Manager had given to him were useless because he couldn't read or write.

"My God!" said the Bank Manager. "A successful business man with three shops and you can't read or write! That's amazing!" He shook his head with wonder "I have to wonder what you would have been if you had learned to read and write."

"Oh that's easy to answer." said the man "I would have been a Church Warden at St Mary's."

Enjoy! There's a moral in there for all of us!

 

[nige]

I think they have been preparing for terrorist attacks and although warned non of the countries have been preparing for this, which is becoming obvious.