Your views on how the Tories have handled Coronavirus.

[Chippy_Tea]

I have removed more posts and opened the thread while I await the Mods decision I will post my earlier warning again in case anyone missed it.

I have asked more than once for the thread to stay on topic and I have explained why so you have two options either stay on topic or the thread is closed I will be removing all off topic posts from last nigh this is not going to turn into a playground for trolls.

 

[Dutto]

Chippy, as far as I am concerned, the Thread can be closed.

The Thread was meant to be a platform whereby the Members of this Forum could suggest (and/or note) where the Government could be doing things "quicker and better".

So far, the majority of the suggestions put forward on this Thread have been carried out by the Government; albeit they were carried out "A Day late and a Dollar short!"

There are a number of outstanding elements which the Government needs to address (especially with regard to ignoring Government advice and "panic buying") but the biggest threat at the moment are the "Emergency Powers" that the Government will attempt to bring into law in the next couple of days.

Personally, I think that allowing this Government to have almost unlimited powers for two years, without the oversight of Parliament every month, is like giving a box of matches to a kid sitting in a fireworks factory! i.e. It's fecking dangerous for everyone concerned.

If the Thread is locked then:

• My opinion of the people who caused the Thread to be locked won't be changed.
• I thank the people who have contributed positively to the Thread.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Rather than lock it I think the fair thing to do will be to carry on deleting the posts that don't stick to the thread title.

 

[Kyral210]

One thing i did learn from years in buisiness is over promotion of an individual above and beyond natural abilities leads to disaster ( every time!!!)

Enter Boris Johnson

 

[MyQul]

Testing kits are in short supply, as soon as the crisis started the German government stopped export of medical supplies. This is probably a lesson learned by the majority of governments around the world they will all be equipped should this happen again. Remember this is a once in a lifetime catastrophe. Most conservative governments would have liked to ride it out, but when it came to the seriousness of the pandemic they have all had to change course, Brazil is the only exception. As for South Korea I would say they were at the ready and had a better grip on the situation, so would I if I was living next door to Kim Jong-Un. One would never know what he may want to lob over the fence at South Korea.

Although this is a once in a lifetime crisis, we knew it was coming. SARS, MERS, Swine Flu. Epidemiologist have been warning that this has been coming. We (the UK) weren't prepared.

I originally thought that the Herd immunity strategy was simply a cost saving strategy but I've come to the conclusion that it was driven by a lack of preparedness foresight, incompetence and most of all a lack of kit(ppe, ventilators and testing) to fight the pandemic. In 2016 the Uk 'wargamed' a pandemic - excercise Cygnus. We failed. But rather than do anything and go out and buy the required kit or put in place plans whereby we can get the kit quickly (if it was too costly to have loads of the kit stockpiled) We just shelved any report and I think the Government just hoped a pandemic never came along. But guess what. It did. So with all the failings around having insufficient kit the government came up with the only viable (well, viable if you're willing to see vast swathes of the population die) solution, which was herd immunity. But as soon as the population cottoned on to the fact loads of us were going to die,we were none too pleased and the Goverment had to do a u-turn. So what we are seeing ow is the Government, lie, obfuscate and panic because we dont have the ppe, tests and ventilators and the government know it's all on them. We even saw them try to take a page from Trumps playbook the other day and try to blame the chinese the other day

 

[pms67]

This will probably quickly move to the “other “ thread , the Government one.
But it’s a tough time and things are about to turn really bad I fear, the UK Gov have messed up big time I believe and could have and should have acted sooner as they had access to all the information about the tidal wave of infection coming.
Boris was 100% right to close the schools and impose a “lockdown “ it’s just that the s**t is about to really hit the fan. To be fair to him it doesn’t help that a lot of people are plainly ignoring it, further restrictions are a must but by then many will have died unnecessarily.

 

[pms67]

I would think a lot of those in ministerial jobs could command a higher salary in private enterprise. Did I not read that Tony Blair made 13 million British pounds Sterling in one year after leaving government. A mile away from the meager salary he earned as PM of the UK.
But there are those who believe the labour politicians are not in it for the money but for the good of the people. Don't you believe it.
Everyone is used, no matter who is in power, instead (I am not pointing the finger at you) someone shows me a better solution or proves the labour party could do thing better job, this is in your country as well as mine I am happy to go along with what those in power recommend.

And as an alternative?

Kermit the frog
Gordon Ramsay
Neil Lennon
Kevin Bridges
Juergen Klopp
Super nanny
Sorry Chippy, still hungover, delete where necessary

 

[foxy]

Although this is a once in a lifetime crisis, we knew it was coming. SARS, MERS, Swine Flu. Epidemiologist have been warning that this has been coming. We (the UK) weren't prepared.

I originally thought that the Herd immunity strategy was simply a cost saving strategy but I've come to the conclusion that it was driven by a lack of preparedness foresight, incompetence and most of all a lack of kit(ppe, ventilators and testing) to fight the pandemic. In (I beleive) 2016 the Uk 'wargamed' a pandemic. We failed. But rather than do anything and go out and buy the required kit or put in place plans whereby we can get the kit quickly (if it was too costly to have loads of the kit stockpiled) We just shelved any report and I think the Government just hoped a pandemic never came along. But guess what. It did. So with all the failings around having insufficient kit the government came up with the only viable (well, viable if you're willing to see vast swathes of the population die) solution, which was herd immunity. But as soon as the population cottoned on to the fact loads of us were going to die,we were none too pleased and the Goverment had to do a u-turn. So what we are seeing ow is the Government, lie, obfuscate and panic because we dont have the ppe, tests and ventilators and the government know it's all on them. We even saw them try to take a page from Trumps playbook the other day and try to blame the chinese the other day

We have known it was coming and there have been labour governments in between, no action taken then and no action taken since, as I have said previously lessons have been learned from this. No good blaming a government in power, Callaghan when the streets were strewn with rubbish said, 'What crisis'
They all lie but more importantly they all learn from mistakes, I am just happy that it wasn't Avian flu which has taught the hard lesson. Once that learns how to infect between human kind it has a 60% kill rate.

Whilst I kind of agree, theres one word that puts a hole in the argument. Opportunity. What if you dont have the education or access to get that eduction. What if you your familily is so poor that you cannot be a 'master of your own destiny'

So education makes a person or his will to progress? There are plenty of well educated individuals who fail to make the grade and there are plenty of poorly educated individuals who go on to make a success of their lives. While education plays a valid part, it can only go so far, it can't instill confidence and the drive needed to get, on that is where the individual psyche comes into play.
Opportunity is all around us it is those that can see it who will use it to there advantage, education plays no part.
'The man who thinks he can' Walter Wintle check it out.

 

[MyQul]

We have known it was coming and there have been labour governments in between, no action taken then and no action taken since, as I have said previously lessons have been learned from this. No good blaming a government in power, Callaghan when the streets were strewn with rubbish said, 'What crisis'
They all lie but more importantly they all learn from mistakes, I am just happy that it wasn't Avian flu which has taught the hard lesson. Once that learns how to infect between human kind it has a 60% kill rate.

So education makes a person or his will to progress? There are plenty of well educated individuals who fail to make the grade and there are plenty of poorly educated individuals who go on to make a success of their lives. While education plays a valid part, it can only go so far, it can't instill confidence and the drive needed to get, on that is where the individual psyche comes into play.
Opportunity is all around us it is those that can see it who will use it to there advantage, education plays no part.
'The man who thinks he can' Walter Wintle check it out.

Of course we can blame the government in power s they're the only ones that can do anythig to help the population. Who else is going to do so in not the goverment of the day during a pandemic. Iif you look at ALL (both left and right) todays UK news papers headlines. That's exactly what their doing The Papers - BBC News.

We've had 10 years of austerity and now the austerity chickens are coming home to roost. As everything in the NHS has been cut to the bone and now we have no capacity to deal with the crisis. You say we've had a Labour government and no action was taken. Labour weren't in power when exercise cygnus was done. Take a look at this article in The Telegraph (not exactly sympathetic to the Left wing point of view I'd say. The Telegraph is behind a payway but I seem to be able to access this article. I'll cut and pasted it if your not able to access it). It's VERY critical of the goverment. The report on Exercise Cygnus has never been released because as one senior former government source with direct involvement in the exercise said they were deemed “too terrifying” to be revealed. So they knew what would happen but still did nothing.

"So education makes a person or his will to progress? " No opportunity does. I used education as an example of opportunity. You need resources to access opportunity. Given the resources most people will be able to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps. You talk about the individual psyche. There are always going to be exceptional people who can overcome any situation but most people aren't exceptional. Compare a young person who lives on an estate, surrounded by poverty and crime with limited opportunities (job, educational, etc) with someone who lives in a leafy suburb who has wealthy parents and can afford to access the opportunities. Which one do you think is most likely to 'succeed in life'

 

[The Baron]

Well I was not on the forum last night and am I glad.
There are so many left wing negative people on here its unbelievable. What ever the government does (Boris) you would never agree and would always pick fault and before you have a go I was a miner during the strike as was my dad my wife's dad and there parents so brought up Labour.
You lost Brexit you lost the Election or should I say got massacred in it and still you will not let go, most of this venom is just anti government anti establishment thoughts why don't you put as much energy into making sure that you are telling the people who are not obeying the government rules/guidelines and not blaming the government(sorry Boris), we get the message you don't like him but we are in the throws of unprecedented times and whats the alternative Corbyn and Abbott you must be having a laugh(bear in mind I'me Labour born and bred)
As I said I am not really politically minded but its getting tedious reading this thread as its the same old same old.
As I have said before your all backseat football managers who think you can run the team better than the real thing.
Well get real and put your energy into getting us through this not bashing the government and am I glad I don,t have to make the decisions of these times.
If the government had put a full lockdown and I mean full straight away it would have decimated jobs and industry and then you would have still had a go at how many jobs had been lost how many people could not afford food etc and I personally would have so I do not agree with the government on everything but hey ho we have been dealt this hand so lets play it

 

[marshbrewer]

Well I was not on the forum last night and am I glad.
There are so many left wing negative people on here its unbelievable. What ever the government does (Boris) you would never agree and would always pick fault and before you have a go I was a miner during the strike as was my dad my wife's dad and there parents so brought up Labour.
You lost Brexit you lost the Election or should I say got massacred in it and still you will not let go, most of this venom is just anti government anti establishment thoughts why don't you put as much energy into making sure that you are telling the people who are not obeying the government rules/guidelines and not blaming the government(sorry Boris), we get the message you don't like him but we are in the throws of unprecedented times and whats the alternative Corbyn and Abbott you must be having a laugh(bear in mind I'me Labour born and bred)
As I said I am not really politically minded but its getting tedious reading this thread as its the same old same old.
As I have said before your all backseat football managers who think you can run the team better than the real thing.
Well get real and put your energy into getting us through this not bashing the government and am I glad I don,t have to make the decisions of these times.
If the government had put a full lockdown and I mean full straight away it would have decimated jobs and industry and then you would have still had a go at how many jobs had been lost how many people could not afford food etc and I personally would have so I do not agree with the government on everything but hey ho we have been dealt this hand so lets play it

Well said. Well bloomin said. There are some one this thread, including those who should know better, who's constant negatively, bending of the facts and moaning, frankly, disgusts me. I don't say that lightly. I am genuinely disgusted.

 

[foxy]

Of course we can blame the government in power s they're the only ones that can do anythig to help the population. Who else is going to do so in not the goverment of the day during a pandemic. Iif you look at ALL (both left and right) todays UK news papers headlines. That's exactly what their doing The Papers - BBC News.

We've had 10 years of austerity and now the austerity chickens are coming home to roost. As everything in the NHS has been cut to the bone and now we have no capacity to deal with the crisis. You say we've had a Labour government and no action was taken. Labour weren't in power when exercise cygnus was done. Take a look at this article in The Telegraph (not exactly sympathetic to the Left wing point of view I'd say. The Telegraph is behind a payway but I seem to be able to access this article. I'll cut and pasted it if your not able to access it). It's VERY critical of the goverment. The report on Exercise Cygnus has never been released because as one senior former government source with direct involvement in the exercise said they were deemed “too terrifying” to be revealed. So they knew what would happen but still did nothing.

"So education makes a person or his will to progress? " No opportunity does. I used education as an example of opportunity. You need resources to access opportunity. Given the resources most people will be able to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps. You talk about the individual psyche. There are always going to be exceptional people who can overcome any situation but most people aren't exceptional. Compare a young person who lives on an estate, surrounded by poverty and crime with limited opportunities (job, educational, etc) with someone who lives in a leafy suburb who has wealthy parents and can afford to access the opportunities. Which one do you think is most likely to 'succeed in life'

Blame is so easy, easy to come up with solutions at this stage of the game, as for newspapers they will print what sells. Face facts, it is a stuff up and it would have happened no matter who is in power it has happened in most countries no one was ready apart from South Korea. This is the time to work together not point a finger of blame. Scomo is working with the Labor party and the unions to try and find solutions to not the virus but the aftermath.

The one who will succeed in life is the one who has the will to succeed, the one from the leafy suburb may well do better academically but it is still the drive which counts.
No amount of education can instill that. It is so easy to lay back and play the victim. Adversity is a part of life, so easy to blame everyone else or Boris if one thinks life hasn't treated them well.

Forgot to add the one who comes off an estate surrounded by crime etc has an advantage of being street smart, you won't get that in a leafy suburb.

 

[An Ankoù]

Of course we can blame the government in power s they're the only ones that can do anythig to help the population. Who else is going to do so in not the goverment of the day during a pandemic. Iif you look at ALL (both left and right) todays UK news papers headlines.

Of course we can blame the government. That's what we elect them for- to represent our best interestsand do the best for all the state's citizens. They aren't doing that: either because of incompetence or because of vested interests or a combination of the two. But when front-line staff are not being protected, when ventilators are not being made in the UK by UK manufacturers who are now having to sell them abroad, when stocks of materials to make tests are not being requisitioned, when factories are laying off workers instead of being MADE to make surgical masks and protective gowns then how would anyone describe that? I call it criminal incompetence.

There are so many left wing negative people on here its unbelievable. What ever the government does (Boris) you would never agree and would always pick fault

That's not fair Baron, I'm not a Tory,- a million miles away from that- BUT in a time of crisis we need to all pull together and, by and large, it's in the nature of the British psyche to do just that. But the Government isn't doing enough. It's as simple as that. We haven't got a leader worthy of the name, just a bunch of no-hopers. We need a leader to rally round, not a clown. We need someone in whose sincerity, at least, we can trust even if he/she makes mistakes. Can we trust Bojo's sincerity? Or Gove's, Or IDS'? We're well and truly adrift.

 

[MyQul]

Blame is so easy, easy to come up with solutions at this stage of the game, as for newspapers they will print what sells. Face facts, it is a stuff up and it would have happened no matter who is in power it has happened in most countries no one was ready apart from South Korea. This is the time to work together not point a finger of blame. Scomo is working with the Labor party and the unions to try and find solutions to not the virus but the aftermath.

The one who will succeed in life is the one who has the will to succeed, the one from the leafy suburb may well do better academically but it is still the drive which counts.
No amount of education can instill that. It is so easy to lay back and play the victim. Adversity is a part of life, so easy to blame everyone else or Boris if one thinks life hasn't treated them well.

Forgot to add the one who comes off an estate surrounded by crime etc has an advantage of being street smart, you won't get that in a leafy suburb.

I agree it would have been very difficult whoever was in government and tbh I dont really think this is a left/right Labour/conservative thing but a Boris Johnson thing. In his drive to push Brexit through BJ purged all the Conveservative who were intelligent and experienced in order to surround himself with yes men/women. Had he not done so, he wouldnt be getting the critisim he is now. He would be better able to draw on that intelligence and experience and better navigate this crisis. Instead we have half wits and newbies. E.g. Have you wondered where priti patel is? I have. she's THE HOME SECRETARY! We're in the middle of a pandemic she should be front and centre. Instead she's been hidden away in case she says something stupid (she has plenty of form on this)

Again it's access to opportunity that leads to success. You can have all the will in the world but if you cant access the opportunities your not going to go anywhere. If you do better academically your going to have better opportunities. Why do people with more money send their children to university? Why do certain minorities people priorities education above everything else. Why do certain charities across the world push for female education in poorer parts of the word. How for example can you get the best paid jobs if your poorly educated. Are you telling me a you need less education to say, become a chemical engineer than a check out operative?

This isnt about blame. Some people have more access to the opportunites than others. If those people with less access can get a small leg up to be on on an equal footing to be able to access those opportunites that will do equally well. Despite all the crap things that New Labour did (like get involved in Iraq) it's widely acknowledge that one of the best things they did was the sure start programme. A programme that helped the most disadvantaged children and parents

 

[The Baron]

Hi AA in reply to my rant it was not aimed at proper and I say proper constructive criticism about the situation but the constant forum members who and I quote JJSH should know better and are constantly putting their energy into bashing Boris.
I do have my thoughts on certain things such as testing etc but as I have said before the situation is being used as a constant political platform and not for the a genuine discussion regarding the coronavirus.
We are in this and as I have said whats the alternative I shudder to think
I like a lot of people do not fully understand the testing situation but all I can say about that is they must not have the test kits available or I am sure they would be testing people especially on the front line( I have heard that Germany has a large medical manufacturing base and we can not get the relevant chemicals for our test kits but I do not know).
If you read this and my previous thread and read between the line you can possibly see I am not a Tory but a disconcerted TRUE Labour supporter of how Labour should be when I was younger but alas the Tories are a better lot at this moment in time than the Left wing thoughts of Corbyn and Abbott and that is why so many people voted for the Tories.
That apart some decisions made in this situation do make me wonder but thats where we are at so lets run with it

 

[MyQul]

Well I was not on the forum last night and am I glad.
There are so many left wing negative people on here its unbelievable. What ever the government does (Boris) you would never agree and would always pick fault

Are people supposed to 'believe in boris' more and everything will be ok? We're in the middle of a pandemic and Boris is F-ing it all up. It's not really about left/right Labour/Conservative it about being competent. In this time of crisis I could get behind anyone that is saving jobs and lives but BJ is/will lose both because he's not being decisive. There's been loads of u-turns, massive lies and obfuscation. He need's to be more like the mayor of new york. Come out with a mea culpa and perhaps bring back some of the intellingent/experienced Conservatives into the cabinet that he's exiled

 

[MyQul]

and we can not get the relevant chemicals for our test kits but I do not know).

Again, this is another massive Government lie. We have the biggest chemical manufactures in Europe. Robert Preston investigated this claim buy Gove the other day. This kind of crap is exactly why I'm critical of BJ and his cabinet (note I didnt say Tories/Conservatives as I dont think his is a left/right thing but a problem with the current incarnation of the the current conservative governement i.e Boris Johnson and his cabinet)

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-31...-there-is-a-shortage-of-test-kit-ingredients/
"Well I've just talked to the Chemical Industries Association, which represents the UK's very substantial chemicals industry.

It has contacted its members, and they've said there is no shortage of the relevant reagents.

So the Association has now been in touch with Mr Gove’s office to find out what he means, because it is stumped.

The Association also points out there was an industry chat with a business minister on Tuesday, who made no attempt to find out if there was a supply problem for the vital ingredients of Covid-19 testing kits"

 

[Dutto]

Sorry folks but I thought it was time to resurrect this Thread!

I have a couple of quotes for you that come from the Coronavirus Thread.

........

One thing i did learn from years in buisiness is over promotion of an individual above and beyond natural abilities leads to disaster ( every time!!!)

They even have a name for it! It's called "The Peter Principle" where a person is so good in their job that they keep getting promoted.

This promotion goes on until such time as they are promoted to a level where they are incompetent; and become Prime Minister of the UK or even President of the USA! Both of these people are prime examples of "The Peter Principle"!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

Well I was not on the forum last night and am I glad.
There are so many left wing negative people on here its unbelievable. What ever the government does (Boris) you would never agree and would always pick fault and before you have a go I was a miner during the strike as was my dad my wife's dad and there parents so brought up Labour.
.......

Oh dear. Left wing negative people such as the Daily Mail and The Times maybe?

May I remind everyone that back on the 16th March (over two weeks ago) the Director General of the World Health Organisation told the whole world that the only way to get on top of this new virus was "Test, Test and Test" and yet today the right=wing newspapers tell us:

• Out of 550,000 NHS Staff only 2,000 have been tested. (Daily Mail)
• Virus testing plans in chaos. (The Times)

Since when have these publications been noted for putting forward the views of "left wing negative people"?

Please stop labelling anyone who thinks that the UK Government could have done things quicker and better as being "left wing negative people"; especially when we see other countries doing much better when it comes to testing personnel working in the NHS.

 

[The Baron]

Hi McQul this thread is about Coronavirus and not a Boris bashing thread.
As regards not being a left/right wing issue you will never convince me different I read most of the threads not just on the current situation but others. There are many lets say Corbynite thoughts expressed on this forum and as I have always found those people shout the loudest hence more comments regards the government.
As I have said I am not a Tory but brought up old style Labour not the left wing type of the current lot or the Blair scenario of new Labour.
As regards Boris if you read my threads you can see I am not a Boris supporter but we are in it and need to deal with it, if Boris doe not deal with it as per the public like he will be out on his ear so thats upto him.
Regards opportunities in life they are there for people who want to get off their ars%^s. I came from a mining family and all my brothers who wanted to go to Uni went in fact 2 are Masters and 2 more are Lecturers in Uni and do you know why be cause they went to Uni with no problem. I myself was made redundant when the pits closed and from earning £20K a year took a job with a basic wage of £4250 yes the days before minimum wages but saw a opportunity to climb the ladder and within 18 months was a manager in the trade I selected.
The opportunities are there its just that some people want them giving to them and will not put themselves out I do not go with no opportunities thats why we have so many people now with degrees in paper bag folding as its too easy to get a degree course in nothingness
Anyway I shall not be answering this thread anymore and will get back to the brewing stuff as that is why I joined in the first place as they say things never to discuss is Politics or Religion

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Well said Dutto but how do we get people with leadership abilities to get in control? They should learn from the coalition government used in WW2 where the best people not just career politicians were put in charge.