Your views on how the Tories have handled Coronavirus.

[Dutto]

The title is self explanatory but to reiterate my own feelings:

1. Handing money over to Businesses DOES NOT protect the workers.
2. Other countries ensure that money is available to people who are sacked, paid off or otherwise thrown out of work. Why can't the UK do this?
3. Agreeing on a "Mortgage Holiday" DOES NOT protect ANY of the millions of people who RENT their homes. (Stopping a Landlord from evicting them for a short period when they have no money just means that most of them will finish up with a huge debt!)

In synopsis, I think that this Government could do things better and quicker in the fight against the coronavirus; and it looks as if others may agree with me.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...mith_uk_5e736d5dc5b6f5b7c53f1e4e?guccounter=1
Enjoy!

 

[cushyno]

Hi @Dutto, I have followed your many posts recently over on the coronavirus thread.

I just wanted to let you know that I support many of your points of view on many of the issues you raise, but not all, and value your contribution to the debate.

This forum is generally a very supportive place with all sorts and of personalities: the happy-go-lucky, the OCD, the scientist, the friendly neighbour, the well read, and the downtrodden. Almost all on here I'd gladly share a pint and enjoy a good natter with.

This forum has an active moderator in Chippy who, while genuinely trying to keep the peace and avoid conflict, may sometimes quash a genuine and heartfelt opinion for the greater good. It can't be easy to make that decision to delete someone's well crafted words.

Keep sharing your opinions, fella. The world would be a much worse place if we couldn't say our piece. But I also respect Chippy's efforts to keep an even keel in sometimes difficult circumstances.

 

[samale]

I really don't understand why they are not testing like other countries.... Ireland is in lock down. All social gatherings is banned pubs are closed. That is not a decision taken lightly

 

[Dutto]

I was a bit worried that I hadn't managed to get my point across so here's a few statistics that may convince people. It concerns the BBC posted statistics for up to the 18th March 2020.

Out of the top NINETEEN countries that have Coronavirus infections the UK comes FOURTH in the ranking of "People Dead v People Infected". (BTW, NO country after these top nineteen comes even close to the percentages being displayed below!)

There can only be one reason and that is that the Government of the UK is failing to put in place the right systems to deal with the virus and to deal with those who become infected; and it has to get worse unless we get this Government to pull their fingers out and DO something!

This always assumes that the years of this Government underfunding the NHS is still recoverable, but on the 18th March 2020 the UK ranks BELOW China; and we have yet to hit the peak of what we can expect in terms of infections and deaths!

I rest my case!

COUNTRY​	DEAD​	INFECTED​	%​	RANK​
China​	3249​	81155​	4.00​	5​
Italy​	3405​	41035​	8.30​	1​
Iran​	1284​	18407​	6.98​	2​
Spain​	803​	17395​	4.62​	3​
Germany​	43​	14481​	0.30​	17=​
USA​	157​	11219​	1.40​	9​
France​	243​	9045​	2.69​	8​
South Korea​	91​	8565​	1.06​	12​
Switzerland​	36​	3888​	0.93​	13​
UK​	144​	3269​	4.41​	4​
Netherlands​	76​	2460​	3.09​	7​
Austria​	6​	2013​	0.30​	17=​
Belgium​	21​	1795​	1.17​	10​
Norway​	7​	1746​	0.40​	16​
Sweden​	11​	1439​	0.76​	14​
Denmark​	6​	1153​	0.52​	15​
Japan​	29​	924​	3.14​	6​
Malaysia​	2​	900​	0.22​	19​
Canada​	9​	798​	1.13​	11​

 

[simon12]

The title is self explanatory but to reiterate my own feelings:

1. Handing money over to Businesses DOES NOT protect the workers.
2. Other countries ensure that money is available to people who are sacked, paid off or otherwise thrown out of work. Why can't the UK do this?
3. Agreeing on a "Mortgage Holiday" DOES NOT protect ANY of the millions of people who RENT their homes. (Stopping a Landlord from evicting them for a short period when they have no money just means that most of them will finish up with a huge debt!)

In synopsis, I think that this Government could do things better and quicker in the fight against the coronavirus; and it looks as if others may agree with me.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...mith_uk_5e736d5dc5b6f5b7c53f1e4e?guccounter=1
Enjoy!

1. It does if it stops them going bankrupt in which case they loose there job
2. We have a benefits system for the unemployed so the answer is the UK does do this
3. A mortgage holiday has no relevance to renters

This may sound like a total disagreement to your point of view but I do agree the governments general approach to this is rushed, badly targeted and is going to have lasting effects and has blown the 330 billion to fast without thinking of the targeting. Also there is a huge number of people that will go into a dept cycle they will never pay off just like the government. We are in an extreme situation and the only way out I see after the virus has passed is massive dept forgiveness that I have no idea how even could work. I would also note it shows the major problems that have been growing since at least the 2 world wars is that the biggest earners have been the money movers (running of the printed money produced by the unholy alliance of the banks, central banks and government) not the people who make things or provide services people actually need.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Could I ask members to use the Coronovirus thread for general virus discussion and only use this one if you disagree with how the government are handling this, thanks.

 

[Oneflewover]

Looks like they've messed up 'school closures'. The definition of key worker is so broad that I reckon loads of kids who don't NEED to be in school will be sent. Schools will have to make up their own rules to keep providing a safe environment. The government don't seem to want to grasp the idea that they have to tell people what to do rather than advise them.

 

[MickDundee]

I was a bit worried that I hadn't managed to get my point across so here's a few statistics that may convince people. It concerns the BBC posted statistics for up to the 18th March 2020.

Out of the top NINETEEN countries that have Coronavirus infections the UK comes FOURTH in the ranking of "People Dead v People Infected". (BTW, NO country after these top nineteen comes even close to the percentages being displayed below!)

There can only be one reason and that is that the Government of the UK is failing to put in place the right systems to deal with the virus and to deal with those who become infected; and it has to get worse unless we get this Government to pull their fingers out and DO something!

This always assumes that the years of this Government underfunding the NHS is still recoverable, but on the 18th March 2020 the UK ranks BELOW China; and we have yet to hit the peak of what we can expect in terms of infections and deaths!

I rest my case!

COUNTRY​	DEAD​	INFECTED​	%​	RANK​
China​	3249​	81155​	4.00​	5​
Italy​	3405​	41035​	8.30​	1​
Iran​	1284​	18407​	6.98​	2​
Spain​	803​	17395​	4.62​	3​
Germany​	43​	14481​	0.30​	17=​
USA​	157​	11219​	1.40​	9​
France​	243​	9045​	2.69​	8​
South Korea​	91​	8565​	1.06​	12​
Switzerland​	36​	3888​	0.93​	13​
UK​	144​	3269​	4.41​	4​
Netherlands​	76​	2460​	3.09​	7​
Austria​	6​	2013​	0.30​	17=​
Belgium​	21​	1795​	1.17​	10​
Norway​	7​	1746​	0.40​	16​
Sweden​	11​	1439​	0.76​	14​
Denmark​	6​	1153​	0.52​	15​
Japan​	29​	924​	3.14​	6​
Malaysia​	2​	900​	0.22​	19​
Canada​	9​	798​	1.13​	11​

The death/case ratio is because we aren’t testing enough so actually have no idea how many cases we have, not because we actually have a higher death rate than other countries.

We’ve all been laid up with symptoms all week and I’m only feeling better now. We couldn’t get tested because none of us were having breathing difficulties.

 

[An Ankoù]

The death/case ratio is because we aren’t testing enough so actually have no idea how many cases we have, not because we actually have a higher death rate than other countries.

We’ve all been laid up with symptoms all week and I’m only feeling better now. We couldn’t get tested because none of us were having breathing difficulties.

Glad you're feeling better.

 

[cushyno]

There can only be one reason and that is that the Government of the UK is failing to put in place the right systems to deal with the virus and to deal with those who become infected; and it has to get worse unless we get this Government to pull their fingers out and DO something!

I agree that the government could be more honest and prescriptive rather than simply "recommending" people stay at home.

Another possibility for the mortality percentage is that the UK are failing to test people in sufficient depth. That will also skew the figures. If UK government don't support a policy to test and measure constantly and consistently, how do they know the true extent of infection? If you shut your eyes it's hard to target a response in the right direction.

 

[Dutto]

.......

We’ve all been laid up with symptoms all week and I’m only feeling better now. We couldn’t get tested because none of us were having breathing difficulties.

Great that you are on the mend.

I'm not surprised that you couldn't get tested. Last week, due to a persistent cough, SWMBO contacted 111. This resulted in a phone call from our own Doctor, a 17 mile drive to Grantham in the car and an x-ray of her chest. No Tests were made and here we are, TEN days later and the surgery may have the results of her x-ray when we phone after 10am. Here's hoping that all is okay!

Just a quick update on Government actions:

1. I forgot about Indonesia and the Philippines. They both have a higher "Death Rate" (8% and 7% respectively) than the UK. I've never been to the Philippines but working in Indonesia (a country that is composed of about 1,000 islands scattered across Asia) I am not surprised that the number of "Infected" is so low because I doubt that they have many "Test Stations".
2. I see that today, the Chancellor is set to announce an employment and wage subsidy package to try to protect millions of jobs. Currently, Denmark has promised to cover 75% of salaries at private companies for three months if they promise not to let staff go. This is apparently one of the options being considered. (When I proposed this early last week the idea was shot down in flames with much derision; hence this particular Thread.)
3. I watched a video last night of military vehicles in Italy being driven in convoy to move bodies from a cemetery that is full to one that still had spare capacity. I pray that I will NEVER see something similar in the UK.
4. The "Day late and a Dollar short!" syndrome is still in play. The Government is today due to bring to Parliament a Bill to increase their Emergency Powers. Apparently it is designed to be put in place for a minimum of three years; but fortunately, the Opposition is asking for an amendment that makes the new Emergency Powers subject to ratification by Parliament every six months. Personally, I believe that extra powers are required, but I don't want Boris to become a dictator; a situation that will surely happen if he is allowed to cloak extra powers under the guise of this emergency.
5. Finally, Tim Martin, the CEO of Wetherspoons (a major contributor to the Conservative Party) told the BBC that a shutdown of pubs would be "over the top". This man goes against ALL scientific advice, against ALL the lock-downs being implemented across the globe, against ALL the apparently successful efforts of the Chinese government. Maybe, because his company is such a big contributor to Boris's Government, this is one of the main reasons why the UK Government is dragging its heels in fighting this current threat.

Enjoy!

 

[Dutto]

Looks like they've messed up 'school closures'. The definition of key worker is so broad that I reckon loads of kids who don't NEED to be in school will be sent. Schools will have to make up their own rules to keep providing a safe environment. The government don't seem to want to grasp the idea that they have to tell people what to do rather than advise them.

This Government doesn't seem to realise that most of the people they look down their noses at are the "Key Workers" that need to be supported.

The school closure situation is "classic cock-up". I can imagine the conversation in Cabinet:

"Closing all the schools is a good idea."​

"Yes! The Head Masters have been telling us for ages that they won't be able to cope because of sick Teachers."​

"Er ... who will look after the kids if the parents are at work?"​

"No problem. We'll keep some schools open for the kids of people we designate as Key Workers."​

"Er ... who will these people be and how will we decide who is and who isn't a Key Worker?"​

"Oh, let's not bother with details like that. Let's just close the schools this Friday and then work it out later."​

"Er ... won't that cause confusion?"​

"Yes, but if the parents can't cope we can always rely on the Grandparents to look after the kids."​

"Er ... haven't we just designated people over 70 years old to be classed as 'Vulnerable'?"​

"Oh ****!"​

​

So now our esteemed(?) Government is seeking more power so that they can actually do something.

The only problem with this "plan" is that personally I have NO confidence that whatever they do, will be for the benefit of the general public in the UK!

 

[Dutto]

Boris is at it again!

Yesterday I heard him say that the UK can beat the Coronavirus "... in the next 12 weeks." but it didn't take him long to row back on this statement and say ...

"At the moment, the disease is proceeding in a way that does not seem yet to be responding to our interventions,
I believe that a combination of the measures asking the public to take and better testing - scientific progress - will enable us to get on top of it and turn the tide.
I cannot stand here and tell you by the end of June we will be on a downward slope.
It's possible, but I simply can't say that for certain."

"IT'S POSSIBLE?" Of course it is, but so is the ability of people to grow gills and breathe underwater; given sufficient time.

This man is leading OUR Government. We expect guidance rather than pie-in-the-sky possibilities and in my life I have never seen a PM who deserved to have his statements scrutinised as much as this man!

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...the-tide-on-the-outbreak-in-12-weeks-11960638
Enjoy?

 

[the_quick]

Really interesting clip:


The thing is, Boris already made mistakes, not preparing for it. I would say this is the biggest so far. Second mistake is not to order people of the streets, in lot of places people still acting like nothing is happening. Even Theresa May is criticising current government

10 years of austerity now shows, that NHS is in dire state. Yes, no Health service could deal with coronavirus , but if you hit service that is already barely coping, you going to have a mess.

I would imagine he is one the worst person to be a leader. Always misleading, out right liar (proved on may occasions). How can you trust a leader like that??

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Could I ask members to use the Coronavirus thread for general virus discussion and only use this one if you disagree with how the government are handling this, thanks.

I posted this earlier and have just moved several posts to the other thread as they were not anti Boris/Tory i don't want 3 Coronavirus threads running at the same time so can we stick to Boris/Tory bashing here and post general Coronavirus stuff in the Coronavirus thread, thanks.

 

[johncrobinson]

I would not be at all supprised if most of the emergency measures are nothing more than old 1960s cold war files dusted off for the present situation.
Thats how incompetent I think they are.

 

[An Ankoù]

I would not be at all supprised if most of the emergency measures are nothing more than old 1960s cold war files dusted off for the present situation.
Thats how incompetent I think they are.

Nah, they were shredded along with the Windrush records, that's how incompetent they are. But lest I be tempted to troll. This post is simply to correct your spelling, it's "surprised".
Right. I'm signing out for the night.

 

[peebee]

However much we might disagree with what Boris is doing, the important thing is we all act as "one" guided by his Government's "plan" for this. The mistake is to splinter off doing different things that cannot work because there is no consensus to follow such ideas.

Grumble by all means, but don't refuse the actions being asked of us. The country did vote the Tories in, with a big majority, perhaps all this blaming of Tories is misplaced and the "root" to blame exists elsewhere.


<EDIT:

... But lest I be tempted to troll. This post is simply to correct your spelling, it's "surprised".

Badly done! If criticising it's a good idea to be squeaky clean: "Lest"?>

<EDIT2: Mmm, you could mean "lest" rather than mis-spelling "least"? As in "lest we forget"? Tricky. Back to "Boris Bashing" ... >

 

[MyQul]

Oh wonderful! just looked at a map of each borough's C-19 cases in London. Guess which borough has the most in London? Yes, mine. Southwark

 

[peebee]

Oh wonderful! just looked at a map of each borough's C-19 cases in London. Guess which borough has the most in London? Yes, mine. Southwark

Okay, if I'm having a run of criticisms, I'll point one your way: Do not read or listen to anything more than the basic guidance or else you might convince yourself to jump off a tall building! That would be an unnecessary waste.


<EDIT: And Chippy has probably got these two posts in his sights to get moved!>