Young’s APA kit - coming out flat

[Rawshark]

Hi all

First time brewer here. So I’ve been brewing a Young’s APA kit and need to know if I can rescue it.

For the most part it all went well. I fermented it, siphoned into a pressure keg and let it sit for a week or so as per the instructions.

The problem I think came in the next step which advised me to move the keg somewhere “cool and dark” for a few weeks. “Nowhere cooler or darker than a fridge” I thought. So it’s been in a fridge at about 5 degrees for the last three weeks or so.

I tested the beer and while it tastes ok, it is flat as hell and can’t develop a head no matter how you pour it. After checking online I reckon it’s because I knocked the yeast out by keeping it too cold. (I’m an idiot, by the way).

I’ve since taken it out of the fridge in the hope a warmer atmosphere and a bit of a shake might wake the yeast back up. Is this a lost cause and one to chock up to experience, or can something be salvaged?

Thanks!

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Don’t worry, you won’t have done the yeast any harm at all - it’s a very resilient organism and you just need to get a bit of secondary fermentation going, to carb up your beer
Did you add any priming sugar to the barrel when you transferred after fermentation?

 

[Rawshark]

Don’t worry, you won’t have done the yeast any harm at all - it’s a very resilient organism and you just need to get a bit of secondary fermentation going, to carb up your beer
Did you add any priming sugar to the barrel when you transferred after fermentation?

Yes, I did. There was a bag that I added to the keg before I siphoned in the brew.

 

[Clint]

Chance is your barrel is leaking pressure...most do.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Does your pressure barrel have a valve you can use to inject gas?

 

[Rawshark]

Does your pressure barrel have a valve you can use to inject gas?

Yes it does. Again this is me being a total noob, but my understanding was that you use the gas once you’re about halfway done to help push the remaining beer out? Does it have any effect on the carbonation?

 

[AndrewJB]

Is this from the Young's Microbrewery kit?

If it is, I'd recommend swapping the 2 clear seals on the pressure barrel cap to the solid colour ones (brown on the outside, purple in the inside) as they seal far better.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Yes it does

Excellent! You're in good shape.

So gas (Co2) can be useful in a few ways with pressure barrels:

• to avoid having to let air in once you start serving the beer. Coming into contact with air makes the beer oxidise and go 'off' quite fast.
• to dissolve CO2 into the beer and make it carbonated

You want to carbonate your beer, so you need to get it good and cold (gas dissolves much better into cold liquids) and then get some pressurised gas into the headspace (the air gap at the top) and leave it for a bit.

First however you need to find if your pressure barrel is leaking, and if so fix it. I'm not the expert to advise on that, but others (@Buffers brewery @Hazelwood Brewery ?) should be able to advise... in the meantime you could try 'burping' a bit of gas into it and wiping around the seal/tap/safety valve etc with a soapy cloth and looking for slow bubbles

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Thanks @The-Engineer-That-Brews

@Rawshark I wrote an article on pressure barrels a while back that I hope provides all the crucial information you need for a long and happy relationship with your pressure barrel. This is a link to it…

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/pressure-barrels-more-than-you-wanted-to-know.89344/

It does sound like all the gas produced from secondary fermentation has managed to escape. As long as you beer isn’t already spoiled you should be able to carbonate it either by doing another secondary fermentation using the same amount of sugar and keeping the barrel at room temperature for a week or two, or you can “force carbonate” by squirting CO2 into the barrel. Some people say secondary fermentation is better but most people I think believe it’s much the same. Either way you need to find and fix that leak or the CO2 will escape again.

In my experience it is almost always the pressure release rubber that’s the cause and you will need to have spare seals to replace older ones as required. It’s all in the article. If you send off for a set you might get them in a day or two.

Edit - don’t drink your beer in the meantime because without pressure from CO2 as your pour air will glug back in through the tap and could spoil your beer.

 

[Rawshark]

Is this from the Young's Microbrewery kit?

If it is, I'd recommend swapping the 2 clear seals on the pressure barrel cap to the solid colour ones (brown on the outside, purple in the inside) as they seal far better.

It is indeed.

is there a link to somewhere I can order one from? Or is this something that should be in the kit?

With the new seal in place, would you then add more priming sugar and let ferment again? Or just add the CO2?

 

[Rawshark]

Thanks @The-Engineer-That-Brews

@Rawshark I wrote an article on pressure barrels a while back that I hope provides all the crucial information you need for a long and happy relationship with your pressure barrel. This is a link to it…

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/pressure-barrels-more-than-you-wanted-to-know.89344/

It does sound like all the gas produced from secondary fermentation has managed to escape. As long as you beer isn’t already spoiled you should be able to carbonate it either by doing another secondary fermentation using the same amount of sugar and keeping the barrel at room temperature for a week or two, or you can “force carbonate” by squirting CO2 into the barrel. Some people say secondary fermentation is better but most people I think believe it’s much the same. Either way you need to find and fix that leak or the CO2 will escape again.

In my experience it is almost always the pressure release rubber that’s the cause and you will need to have spare seals to replace older ones as required. It’s all in the article. If you send off for a set you might get them in a day or two.

Edit - don’t drink your beer in the meantime because without pressure from CO2 as your pour air will glug back in through the tap and could spoil your beer.

Thanks - that’s a lot to go on. It sounds like I’ll need a new seal / cap so if anyone can recommend or link to what I should be looking for that would be a big help.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

It is indeed.

is there a link to somewhere I can order one from? Or is this something that should be in the kit?

With the new seal in place, would you then add more priming sugar and let ferment again? Or just add the CO2?

Just add CO2 - as you want to avoid opening the barrel and letting air in if you can.
You may be able to do without a new seal, if you can work out where the leak is. Get some gas injected, then get a bit of washing up liquid in some water and wipe it on with a cloth… just a very slow bubble somewhere probably

 

[AndrewJB]

It is indeed.

is there a link to somewhere I can order one from? Or is this something that should be in the kit?

With the new seal in place, would you then add more priming sugar and let ferment again? Or just add the CO2?

I have previously purchased replacement pressure barrel seals from The Home Brew Shop and Balliihoo, but the latter is currently out of stock.

Links:
https://www.balliihoo.co.uk/valve-cap-seal-set-for-pressure-barrels-with-2-inch-caps
https://www.balliihoo.co.uk/barrels...o2-pressure-top-up-valves-replacement-rubbers
https://www.balliihoo.co.uk/barrels...s30-pressure-release-relief-rubbers-pack-of-5
https://www.balliihoo.co.uk/barrels...sories/s30-black-inlet-rubber-seals-pack-of-5
https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/safety-valve-rubber-brown.html
https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/black-inlet-valve-rubber.html

Balliihoo also sell a tool to help install the outer seal.

https://www.balliihoo.co.uk/ring-applicator-pliers-for-fitting-valve-seals

 

[Rawshark]

Thanks everyone for the very useful suggestions so far. Think I’ve got a plan of action. Will try the soapy water to see if I’ve got a leak. If that’s the case it’s probably all over for this batch.

Otherwise it’s back in the fridge until cold, then blast with another shot of Co2 and leave for - what do you reckon, 2-3 days?

I’m wondering if this is down to me not being liberal enough with the Vaseline when capping. Or making some other mistake with the cap. Might play it safe next time and bottle instead…

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

if I’ve got a leak [...] it’s probably all over for this batch.

That seems v. pessimistic - I wouldn't be so fast to write it off if I were you.

How long it would take to carbonate is hard to call because it depends on a number of different factors. It's likely to be more like a week though.

I’m wondering if this is down to me not being liberal enough with the Vaseline when capping. Or making some other mistake with the cap. Might play it safe next time and bottle instead…

Bottling is harder and a lot more faff. Try getting your current PB working properly first. If (IF!) it's got a leak you can't fix then get a better PB as in the thread Hazelwood sent you.

Brewing seems like it's challenge after challenge when you set out but it's basically pretty easy once you're familiar with your kit. Don't give up at the first hurdle.

 

[Rawshark]

Sorry, don’t mean to sound pessimistic. I’m just naturally always thinking of what I might have done wrong. (It’s like parenting all over again).

So an update - I picked up some spare Co2 cartridges, injected one and put the washing up liquid around the cap to see where the leak was coming from.

Bit of an unexpected result… the keg took it for a while, but then started hissing from the emergency valve. But way more than you’d expect from a small leak. Basically, I think it was doing its job and expelling excess Co2 because there was already plenty in there.

Poured a very small glass and the difference was night and day. Good pour with a foamy top… I can only assume me taking the keg out of the fridge a week back and giving it a shake woke it up and the secondary fermentation kicked in.

It’s mad how wrong footed I’ve been in the process - didn’t help that the UK’s temperature has always either been too hot or too cold for what I wanted to do.

So now I’ve put it back in the fridge and enjoy once cold - or is that going to make it flat again?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

So now I’ve put it back in the fridge and enjoy once cold - or is that going to make it flat again?

No, it will be fine.

Secondary fermentation, which produces the carbonation from sugar, takes a couple of weeks at room temperature, maybe longer if a bit cool, and months at fridge temperatures. Once carbonated though you can chill the beer down without issue.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Sounds like your barrel uses those individual 8g CO2 bulbs - convenient, but a bit of a pain because (as you have found) you can't really control the pressure.

Longer term you might be better off replacing the cap on your barrel, or at least the brass valve on it, with something that lets you use a more controllable and cheaper source of CO2 such as a screw-in SodaStream bottle: currently £13 per refill from Argos. With that you can simply 'burp' in as much or as little CO2 as you need to keep the beer flowing.

To use a SodaStream bottle you need to do two things:

1. replace the existing valve on your barrel cap with an "S30" valve (e.g. £7.95 from Brew2Bottle: https://brew2bottle.co.uk/products/s30-valve-complete)
2. get an adapter to let you squirt gas into an S30 valve from a Sodastream cylinder (e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mangobuy-Hambleton-Adapter-Injector-Homebrew/dp/B072V4RVMD)

Apologies to @Hazelwood Brewery, as all this is doubtless already covered (better) in the PB HowTo

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Sounds like your barrel uses those individual 8g CO2 bulbs - convenient, but a bit of a pain because (as you have found) you can't really control the pressure.

Longer term you might be better off replacing the cap on your barrel, or at least the brass valve on it, with something that lets you use a more controllable and cheaper source of CO2 such as a screw-in SodaStream bottle: currently £13 per refill from Argos. With that you can simply 'burp' in as much or as little CO2 as you need to keep the beer flowing.

To use a SodaStream bottle you need to do two things:

1. replace the existing valve on your barrel cap with an "S30" valve (e.g. £7.95 from Brew2Bottle: https://brew2bottle.co.uk/products/s30-valve-complete)
2. get an adapter to let you squirt gas into an S30 valve from a Sodastream cylinder (e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mangobuy-Hambleton-Adapter-Injector-Homebrew/dp/B072V4RVMD)

Apologies to @Hazelwood Brewery, as all this is doubtless already covered (better) in the PB HowTo

. What isn’t covered in that thread though did cover it somewhere is my move to Schrader valves and just filling from my 6Kg CO2 bottle used with my kegs. The price difference is astounding!

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

. What isn’t covered in that thread though did cover it somewhere is my move to Schrader valves and just filling from my 6Kg CO2 bottle used with my kegs. The price difference is astounding!

Of course you could consider Cornies