Yeast nutrient, But which one?

[Frisp]

The saying "You are what you eat" Also seems to apply to our wee yeastie friends..
So I get it that good nutrition is really gonna help our wee buddies get torn into the wort

But the question is
Which Nutrient to go for? there are many and varied options on T'internet..

So which Yast Nutrient do you each use / or not and why?

 

[MashBag]

Tbh I sprinkle and have never used nutrient in beers. However the B Vitamins are your yeasts best friend, much better than dap based nutrition. I only keep trono for emergencies.

Ask yourself.... If they are starting and working OK so you need to add nutrient?

 

[Frisp]

Ask yourself.... If they are starting and working OK so you need to add nutrient?

Good point.
However I started looking into the whole nutrient thing after my Stoutzilla ferment. WLP004 pitched @18C and held there for the duration, took a long time to get started, had a bit of a sprint and then slowed to a crawl..

I couldnt help but think it was a little bit unhappy with its dinner. Probably a bit underpitched a load of unfermentables not helping either

So it got me thinking that by providing them all they need ,its gonna make the ferment that bit better. Taking lack of nutrition out of the equasion when im fermenting (in addition to the right pitch rate and temp control )

When I went looking for a good all round nutrient I just got confused with the range of products thats out there.

 

[Stu's Brews]

Most worts contain all the nutrients that yeast need, with the significant exception of zinc. Hence most yeast nutrient blends contain a significant proportion of zinc, amongst other vitamins and minerals that are beneficial to yeast health.

Zinc is beneficial as it supports yeast growth and metabolism, plays a key role in the reduction of acetaldehyde to ethanol and can promote better head retention and foam stability.

If you are using dried yeast then zinc should be all you really need to add to your wort (unless it is particularly high gravity or contains a lot of adjuncts) as everything else will already be available in the wort / yeast (dried yeast already contains the sterols and lipids needed).

If you are using liquid yeast then you may benefit from adding some of the other nutrients that support yeast health (vitamins, diammonium phosphate, etc.).

I use the Wyeast nutrient blend: https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/wyeast-beer-nutrient-blend/?v=79cba1185463

 

[JockyBrewer]

With dry yeast you really shouldn't need to use any nutrient.

Wet yeast is usually worth it as insurance to make sure that the yeast hasn't depleted its reserves while dormant. It's most important for starters and essential for repitched yeast.

As for what... I dunno. I've always gone with the idea that any one of the products available is probably enough when used in the prescribed quantity (more is not always better). I've never seen any difference between them.

White Labs Servomyces seems to be the best thought of, but it's also the most expensive. Currently I'm using The Malt Miller concentrated yeast nutrient.

 

[Frisp]

As for what... I dunno. I've always gone with the idea that any one of the products available is probably enough

So pretty much pick one of the own label ones from TMM or GER and it will work as well as anything..

 

[Stu's Brews]

So pretty much pick one of the own label ones from TMM or GER and it will work as well as anything..

I think they are all mostly contain a very similar mix of vitamins and minerals to be honest, although without going through the ingredients list for each one I can't say for certain how similar they are.

 

[JockyBrewer]

I think they are all mostly contain a very similar mix of vitamins and minerals to be honest, although without going through the ingredients list for each one I can't say for certain how similar they are.

Yeah they'll all be a similar mix I guess.

I just remembered what was different about Servomyces that makes it more expensive. Basically, as the name implies it's dried (dead) yeast, that has been fed with lots of zinc and other nutrients before drying. As it's just yeast, it's compliant with the rheinheitsgebot in Germany, which other nutrients are not.

So it's a bit like the acidulated malt of yeast nutrients - a much more expensive product that only solves a daft legal issue in Germany.

Although recently Chris White from Whitelabs has said that most yeast nutrients end up binding to proteins in the kettle and left in the trub, whereas Servomyces doesn't suffer from that. I'm sceptical as to how much of a problem this is as I've not heard it backed up anywhere else, but then I've not got a PhD in Biochemistry and more than 30 years professional experience working with yeast.

 

[MashBag]

Good point.
However I started looking into the whole nutrient thing after my Stoutzilla ferment. WLP004 pitched @18C and held there for the duration, took a long time to get started, had a bit of a sprint and then slowed to a crawl..

I couldnt help but think it was a little bit unhappy with its dinner. Probably a bit underpitched a load of unfermentables not helping either

So it got me thinking that by providing them all they need ,its gonna make the ferment that bit better. Taking lack of nutrition out of the equasion when im fermenting (in addition to the right pitch rate and temp control )

When I went looking for a good all round nutrient I just got confused with the range of products thats out there.

I would look at the yeast first is that was the case.

 

[Stu's Brews]

Although recently Chris White from Whitelabs has said that most yeast nutrients end up binding to proteins in the kettle and left in the trub

Jamil Zainasheff said something similar at BrewCon in his talk. I'd have to go and dig out my notes for the full details, but essentially he reckoned you needed to add more zinc in the boil than if you added it directly to the fermenter.

In my head I seem to remember you needed to add roughly double the amount to the boil to overcome the losses, but you do gain from mitigating any sanitation risks.

 

[JockyBrewer]

It probably helps that an all malt wort should already have everything the yeast needs in terms of nutrients, although I like to add nutrient for insurance.

Malt extract starters are different, and as mentioned above I think repitched yeast benefits from the extra nutrients.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Good point.
However I started looking into the whole nutrient thing after my Stoutzilla ferment. WLP004 pitched @18C and held there for the duration, took a long time to get started, had a bit of a sprint and then slowed to a crawl..

I couldnt help but think it was a little bit unhappy with its dinner. Probably a bit underpitched

A long time to get started sounds more like a problem with the yeast than with the wort. Were you pitching straight out of the packet, was it a little bit old? A vitality starter would probably do you more good than adding nutrients.

Also liquid yeast need aeration because they don't have the sterols for building cell membranes that dried yeast do.

In general, beer yeast don't need huge amounts of nutrient beyond what's in the grist, but if you do add something then a nutrient that is guaranteed to have all the nutrients needed to make new yeast is - old yeast tipped into the boil, a bit of cannibalism is perfect for nutrition.

Zinc is an important nutrient but it has a pretty narrow effective range, too much and you start inhibiting things so you need to be careful with it, none is better than too much.

 

[Frisp]

I would look at the yeast first is that was the case.

the yeast was well within date, bought 3 weeks prior to pitching.I trusted the pack when it said it was fit for direct pitching however i think it deffo needed a starter done.

Im going to wash the yeast cake after kegging and make starters from it going forward

 

[Frisp]

Were you pitching straight out of the packet, was it a little bit old? A vitality starter would probably do you more good than adding nutrients.

yes and I think that was a mistake. I need to start making starters . I intend to wash this yeast when I keg off the stout. and use it to make starters for my irish and Scottish ales

Also liquid yeast need aeration because they don't have the sterols for building cell membranes that dried yeast do.

I think I relied too much on teh splash into the fermenter . hopwever I bought up a load of brewing gear online last weekend and there was an oxygen wand with a carbonation stone and two full O2 cylinders included . so Ill use that to make sure there is O2 in the wort before pitching ( still gotta work out how to get the best out of teh wand)

old yeast tipped into the boil, a bit of cannibalism is perfect for nutrition.

How much old yeast are we talking in a 20L batch? Im thinking, if Im washing yeast I may want to hold some back to drop in the boil in addition to using some for a starter?

 

[MashBag]

I do think you are making this harder for yourself, with more and more complexity.

Sprinkle and be done. Lovely

 

[Frisp]

I do think you are making this harder for yourself, with more and more complexity.

Sprinkle and be done. Lovely

Sadly Im a bit of a geek.. Keeping it simple is too easy.. lol

 

[JockyBrewer]

And sometimes the yeast you want to use isn’t available dry.

 

[Frisp]

And sometimes the yeast you want to use isn’t available dry.

And at £12 -15 a dose to buy wet getting several brews from one purchase brings wet yeast into line with the cost of dried.

This WLP004 being an irish / scottish yeast is likely to be my main yest for a while as I will mainly be brewing stout and Scottish 60/- recipes in 8L test batches until I home in on something I love. Pitching new full packets, even dried, into 8L batches doesnt make any sense.

Also I bought a van load of kegs and other stuff as a job lot last weekend from a bloke who had to give up his brewery. In among it I found a stir plate and 1L, 2L and 5L erdimyer flasks. be rude not to give washing, storing and making starters a go.. especially as Im a have a go geek

 

[YeastFace]

I bought the Wyeast stuff. Expensive, but will last for ages. Doesn't stink like the white powder stuff either.

 

[MashBag]

Stink. Cripes what white powder are you using?