Yeast Lag

[DoctorMick]

I've done about 20 brews now and each time the yeast has taken more than 24 hours to show any visible signs of activity. Yesterdays brew is showing absolutely no sign of life after about 18 hours and I'm now in my usual paranoid state thinking it isn't going to start and wondering if there was a massive temperature difference between the yeast and the wort...I'm sure all will be well and tomorrow morning it'll be bursting through the lid but I'd be much happier if I could get my brews off to a better start.

I try to make sure I aerate the wort well and always dehydrate the yeast. What else should I be doing to give it a fighting chance and reduce the lag? From what I'd read I shouldn't need nutrients with AG brewing as it should come from the grain but that could be bad information. Could my water cause problems for the yeast?

 

[Covrich]

What temp do you pitch at? Last few I have pitched it a bit warmer (24 degrees) even though where it will sit will be ambiently cooler (apart from my saison which was kept at 24) and they have started going a little bit quicker.

When I have pitched cooler like 18 its taken a bit longer to kick off..

 

[DoctorMick]

I'll be honest, I didn't check yesterday but usually the wort is around 23-24 and the yeast a little bit (2-3 degrees) warmer.

 

[DoctorMick]

I've been thinking, my yeast has just been stored in a box in the garage for a month or so, is this likely to have destroyed it? I've always stored it there but obviously it's been warmer recently although the garage doesn't really get above 20c.

 

[Spapro]

Mine usually take 24 hours to really show much signs of life. If you have done 20 brews and they all do ferment ok not sure you have a big problem.

I wouldn't have thought storing dried sachet yeast in your garage, even at 20°C, would cause a problem.

Are you treating your water with a Campden tablet? I've heard you should do this at least 24 hours before brewing as the yeast does take a hit if the campden tablet was added just before brewing/pitching. Just what I read.

 

[LarryF]

Dr, my quickest kick off is with a re-pitched from trub mangrove Jacks Workhorse yeast ( a hot weather yeast )with 1tsp of YN this month with the higher temps, twelve hours later I was thinking of fitting a blow off tube. I find the re-pitching from trub goes off a lot quicker than from dry, admittedly I've never got round to pre-hydrating the yeast. Over the summer as I have no temp control I've found the yeast kicking off really early. I'm sure yours will be climbing out of the FV by the morning.

 

[Soton]

I should think I would be good practice to always make a yeast starter at least 24 hours before its needed, from what I have read a yeast starter helps produce crisper tasting beer and you are less likely to get a stuck fermentations, also if the yeast is not at its best it will improve the yeast numbers and cause it less stress

 

[MyQul]

I've found aerating the wort to be the key. I know you said you aerate but I'm guessing like most people you agitate the surface of the wort somehow. Such as using a whisk or something? I get the impression that although the surface is aerated most of the rest of the wort isn't.
It's actually quite hard to aerate wort without an aeration stone. According to the yeast book the optimum rate of aeration is 8-10 ppm but without an aeration stone an pure O2 the best a homebrewer can hope for is about 2.71ppm

As a Maxi-Biaber I need to dilute my concentrated wort in the FV. I've discovered if I put about 4-5L of water in a one of my 5L plastic jerry cans and shake the hell out of it (sometimes I open the top and squeeze the sides a couple of times to try to get more oxygen/air in then shake loads again), then dilute the wort down as normal with this 4-5L plus whatever more water is needed. Then whisk the diluted wort with a mechanical whisk. My fermentation is usually under way after 9-10 hours.
I know you dont dilute your wort but you could fill a 5L water bottle with 4-5L of wort and do the above.

Of course if your using dried yeast you'll want to re-hydrate it. tbh I'm to lazy too rehydrate dried yeast and just pitch about 50% more to compensate for the cells that get killed by just chucking it in the wort

 

[DoctorMick]

Mine usually take 24 hours to really show much signs of life. If you have done 20 brews and they all do ferment ok not sure you have a big problem.

I wouldn't have thought storing dried sachet yeast in your garage, even at 20°C, would cause a problem.

Are you treating your water with a Campden tablet? I've heard you should do this at least 24 hours before brewing as the yeast does take a hit if the campden tablet was added just before brewing/pitching. Just what I read.

I do use canpden and add it just before heating the water so that could be part of it.

 

[DoctorMick]

I've found aerating the wort to be the key. I know you said you aerate but I'm guessing like most people you agitate the surface of the wort somehow. Such as using a whisk or something? I get the impression that although the surface is aerated most of the rest of the wort isn't.
It's actually quite hard to aerate wort without an aeration stone. According to the yeast book the optimum rate of aeration is 8-10 ppm but without an aeration stone an pure O2 the best a homebrewer can hope for is about 2.71ppm

As a Maxi-Biaber I need to dilute my concentrated wort in the FV. I've discovered if I put about 4-5L of water in a one of my 5L plastic jerry cans and shake the hell out of it (sometimes I open the top and squeeze the sides a couple of times to try to get more oxygen/air in then shake loads again), then dilute the wort down as normal with this 4-5L plus whatever more water is needed. Then whisk the diluted wort with a mechanical whisk. My fermentation is usually under way after 9-10 hours.
I know you dont dilute your wort but you could fill a 5L water bottle with 4-5L of wort and do the above.

Of course if your using dried yeast you'll want to re-hydrate it. tbh I'm to lazy too rehydrate dried yeast and just pitch about 50% more to compensate for the cells that get killed by just chucking it in the wort

I stir the bejesus out of it as it's going in to the fermenter but that probably isn't enough. You've mentioned the mechanical whisk before and I was going to try it but I'd completely forgot about it.

 

[DoctorMick]

I should think I would be good practice to always make a yeast starter at least 24 hours before its needed, from what I have read a yeast starter helps produce crisper tasting beer and you are less likely to get a stuck fermentations, also if the yeast is not at its best it will improve the yeast numbers and cause it less stress

I'm planning on using liquid yeast in a couple of brews so I will be making starters which I'm sure will irradiate this problem.

 

[Twostage]

I store my dried yeast in the fridge in two golden syrup tins (so it is air tight when I use part of a packet). The Fermentis ones recommend fridge temperature so I assume it is the way to go for all dried yeast.

I don't think a long lag is a problem (unless you are a commercial brewery) as it just means it is building up strength for the fermentation. If I pitched dried yeast and it went off quickly I'd worry it was under-aerated.

Re-pitched slurry,however as LarryF says, does go off quick and I'd recommend anyone to try it as it is so easy.

 

[MyQul]

I'm planning on using liquid yeast in a couple of brews so I will be making starters which I'm sure will irradiate this problem.

Think your brews will go nuclear with the use of liquid yeast

 

[MyQul]

I store my dried yeast in the fridge in two golden syrup tins (so it is air tight when I use part of a packet). The Fermentis ones recommend fridge temperature so I assume it is the way to go for all dried yeast.

I don't think a long lag is a problem (unless you are a commercial brewery) as it just means it is building up strength for the fermentation. If I pitched dried yeast and it went off quickly I'd worry it was under-aerated.

Re-pitched slurry,however as LarryF says, does go off quick and I'd recommend anyone to try it as it is so easy.

I always re-pitch slurry if I can cuz I'm such a lazy brewer

 

[MyQul]

I stir the bejesus out of it as it's going in to the fermenter but that probably isn't enough. You've mentioned the mechanical whisk before and I was going to try it but I'd completely forgot about it.

As I say, I don't think any sort of whisking is enough. When I use the whisk alone I get froth/foam on the top of the wort which disappates very quickly but when I first use the shaken 5L of water then whisk I get a thick creamy head of foam which I think indicates that the wort is that much more aerated