WW3

[An Ankoù]

It's like listening to the BBC

Steady on, old chap!

 

[Omega]

Biden has given the green light for Ukraine to use long range missiles these have a range of 200 miles, Putin has already said he will use nukes if they hit Russia will this force Putin into a corner and he will use them?

On the topic - analysts suggest hybrid war will get on with knives out. No more gentlemanly behaviour. Well , we will see, unfortunately
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/19/us-russia-ukraine-missile-attacks

I cannot stop suspecting that Biden deliberately does this to make sure he embarrasses Trump and this way improves chances for democrats to win next elections. Ukraine and Russia are just a sideshow

 

[Chippy_Tea]

cannot stop suspecting that Biden deliberately does this to make sure he embarrasses Trump and this way improves chances for democrats to win next elections. Ukraine and Russia are just a sideshow

I agree its too much of a coincidence he decided to allow this just as he is leaving office.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

On the topic - analysts suggest hybrid war will get on with knives out. No more gentlemanly behaviour. Well , we will see, unfortunately

I didn't read the full article but lets not forget Putin doesn't play by the rules he has no interest in the Geneva Convention he may not use nukes but he could use chemical weapons to kill as many Ukrainians as possible if he thinks he may lose the war.

The inquiry report was released on 21 January 2016. The report found that Litvinenko was killed by two Russian agents, Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitry Kovtun and that there was a "strong probability" they were acting on behalf of the Russian FSB secret service.

 

[Omega]

I didn't read the full article but lets not forget Putin doesn't play by the rules he has no interest in the Geneva Convention he may not use nukes but he could use chemical weapons to kill as many Ukrainians as possible if he thinks he may lose the war.

Both sides commit crime, no moral superiority of one side over the other. An example - this is a video from US and British fighters, time 52:48 - British fighter admits he does not take prisoners in a trench warfare. Minute 55:08 - US fighter confirms he shoots even lying opponents as he does not know if they were disabled. In my understanding, this is war crime, but how can anyone demand them comply with various Conventions and accept an excessive risks? They are military, not police
Both sides accused each other in using chemical weapons already - there are videos when both sides used tear gas to force the opposition from the bunkers

 

[Omega]

The inquiry report was released on 21 January 2016. The report found that Litvinenko was killed by two Russian agents, Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitry Kovtun and that there was a "strong probability" they were acting on behalf of the Russian FSB secret service.

As I understand, British law demands to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" and "strong probability" is not enough to be considered "beyond reasonable doubt"

I agree it's too much of a coincidence he decided to allow this just as he is leaving office.

I thought this may backfire against Zelenskyy - Putin may now have an argument to Trump (imagine this like a meeting between mob): "You see, he disrespected me. I, on the other side, was patient waiting for you to come to power and make your judgement. He also disrespected you because he went against your wishes to de-escalate. We are on the same page that he cannot get away with this. I understand you cannot let me kill him because he is your b**ch, but your b**ch is mad. He must be punished, this will be the right thing, And he must be heavily punished so that he does not do it again. So, give me not only 4 regions of Ukraine that I already took, but also Odessa, Kharkiv and all Black Sea coast until Moldova as a moral compensation and I will forget all grievances"

 

[Stu]

The problem is, Trump can't stop the war. Europe will keep it running, even if Trump pulls out. He has no wish to fight Europe.

As for this thread being like the BBC, it's more like G Beebies. Lots of people who have no idea what they're talking about (me included) arguing like we're some kind of experts.

There are no experts in this thread. But some wild opinions. I'm surprised Covid and mind altering jabs haven't been brought into it

 

[Omega]

The problem is, Trump can't stop the war. Europe will keep it running, even if Trump pulls out. He has no wish to fight Europe.

As for this thread being like the BBC, it's more like G Beebies. Lots of people who have no idea what they're talking about (me included) arguing like we're some kind of experts.

There are no experts in this thread. But some wild opinions. I'm surprised Covid and mind altering jabs haven't been brought into it

Well said

 

[Chippy_Tea]

As for this thread being like the BBC, it's more like G Beebies. Lots of people who have no idea what they're talking about (me included) arguing like we're some kind of experts.

You don't have to be an expert to have an opinion on whether we should be allowing missiles given to the Ukraine to used on Russia and what may be the concequences if you don't want to take part and don't like what is being discussed stop reading the thread.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Can i suggest it is closed, reading the comments i now know why we have the leaders we have

 

[Brew_DD2]

Can i suggest it is closed, reading the comments i now know why we have the leaders we have

Self-awareness.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Can i suggest it is closed, reading the comments i now know why we have the leaders we have

No as I said earlier if you don't like the discussion stop reading it put the thread on your ignore list why should those who do want to discuss the war lose the means to do so because a member doesn't like what they are discussing?

 

[matt.]

No as I said earlier if you don't like the discussion stop reading it put the thread on your ignore list why should those who do want to discuss the war lose the means to do so because a member doesn't like what they are discussing?

Quite agree. No-one being sweary or offensive.

 

[Larse]

However, I do not understand the financial benefits to Russia from this war - they don't need more territory because they cannot utilise their own (they are trying to give away land for free in Far East to populate the region);

One theory for this war (and don't forget that it started back in 2014* with the annexation of Crimea and the Donbas - made up region, but anyway) is that it was the imminent likelihood of Ukraine joining the EU and the inevitable rise in living standards that it would bring that forced Putin to break Ukraine's sovereign integrity to prevent the establishment of an economic success story that would be likely to create unfavourable comparisons with the struggling Russian one.

TL;DR: The serfs in Russia might start asking questions as to why their relatives and friends in Ukraine were doing so much better than them. The looting of such inconsequential items as toilets and washing machines in the early days of the invasion provide an insight into how wide that gap was becoming even without EU membership.

*Is it a coincidence that the invasion in 2014 followed almost immediately after the removal of the Kremlin puppet Yanukovich and the reversal of his reversal of the EU accession agreement?

 

[old dog new tricks]

One theory for this war (and don't forget that it started back in 2014* with the annexation of Crimea and the Donbas - made up region, but anyway) is that it was the imminent likelihood of Ukraine joining the EU and the inevitable rise in living standards that it would bring that forced Putin to break Ukraine's sovereign integrity to prevent the establishment of an economic success story that would be likely to create unfavourable comparisons with the struggling Russian one.

TL;DR: The serfs in Russia might start asking questions as to why their relatives and friends in Ukraine were doing so much better than them. The looting of such inconsequential items as toilets and washing machines in the early days of the invasion provide an insight into how wide that gap was becoming even without EU membership.

*Is it a coincidence that the invasion in 2014 followed almost immediately after the removal of the Kremlin puppet Yanukovich and the reversal of his reversal of the EU accession agreement?

Don't under estimate the value attached to the grain that used to flow out via the Black Sea, that has made Russia the biggest food grower in the world and cemented their position.

Even China imports rice and grain now as demand outstrips supply due to poor harvests.

Food an Energy as now as big a threat as nukes if manipulated correctly, look what happened almost immediately when the output from Ukraine stopped.

Cast your minds back the former USSR knew how see out enemies, cut off the food and supplies and watch then freeze this is not a new strategy just a bit more subtle this time,

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Latest news BBC

• Kyiv says Russia has launched an intercontinental ballistic missile at Ukraine - it would mark the first attack from such a weapon in almost three years of war
• Russia has refused to comment - instead it claims, without further information, to have shot down two UK-supplied Storm Shadow missiles
• It's still unclear exactly what was damaged in the attack, which Ukraine says was targeting infrastructure in the eastern city of Dnipro
• The city was rocked by explosions for three hours this morning, our diplomatic correspondent Paul Adams writes

 

[Larse]

Don't under estimate the value attached to the grain that used to flow out via the Black Sea, that has made Russia the biggest food grower in the world and cemented their position.

Even China imports rice and grain now as demand outstrips supply due to poor harvests.

Food an Energy as now as big a threat as nukes if manipulated correctly, look what happened almost immediately when the output from Ukraine stopped.

Cast your minds back the former USSR knew how see out enemies, cut off the food and supplies and watch then freeze this is not a new strategy just a bit more subtle this time,

Well Ukraine used to be called the bread basket of Europe. Probably still is albeit curtailed by the war. And of course the starvation tactic is well known in Ukraine from the Holodomor.

 

[Larse]

Kyiv says Russia has launched an intercontinental ballistic missile at Ukraine - it would mark the first attack from such a weapon in almost three years of war

This could be either a tit for tat escalation or a sign that Russia is having to dig deeper into their stockpiles.