Would you still vote for Brexit?

[chopps]

Yep. I will be doing the same. And we can make it work. Good luck @obscure

 

[Buffers brewery]

I would be delighted to be wrong for leaving the EU to be a resounding success and for the UK to flourish.

Unfortunately I am going to be spending the new year trying to mitergate the damage to my place of employment of suddenly no longer being a member of the EU, of a likely collapse in the value of sterling (more so than has already happened) sharply increasing our cost base. Of trying to deal with shipments that have being stuck for weeks in customs, or in the North Atlantic for that matter. Of the fact that when exporting to the continent suddenly products being made to UK standards is no longer sufficient.

Sadly, I'm not convinced by your initial statement.
Your mitigation exercise is for something that is "likely" not actual. The problems at the ports is nothing to do with Brexit and it is disingenuos of you to imply otherwise. UK standards are exactly the same as EU standards at the moment so applying a CE mark is not an issue at all.
You have a choice. Get on and make it work or walk around with those sloping shoulders muttering how it's all gone wrong.
No offence intended.

 

[obscure]

Sadly, I'm not convinced by your initial statement.
Your mitigation exercise is for something that is "likely" not actual. The problems at the ports is nothing to do with Brexit and it is disingenuos of you to imply otherwise. UK standards are exactly the same as EU standards at the moment so applying a CE mark is not an issue at all.
You have a choice. Get on and make it work or walk around with those sloping shoulders muttering how it's all gone wrong.
No offence intended.

Problems at British ports are currently caused by a mixture of COVID and firms desperately trying to get goods in pre Brexit. In the new year we will have to contend with suddenly needing to deal with a likely no deal and the impact on the ports.

My comment is unfortunately reflective of the reality at the moment and a positive attitude doesn’t do much when dealing with customs authorities. Brexit was done purely on ideological grounds and if that’s what you want fair enough but we still have to deal with the reality on the ground and try somehow to keep business going.

 

[marshbrewer]

Whilst I'm not going to deny that there is an element of companies stockpiling for Brexit, lots of ports in the US are totally snarled up, so I'd wager the majority of the disruption is Covid related.

 

[chopps]

UK standards are exactly the same as EU standards at the moment so applying a CE mark is not an issue at all.

Not disagreeing, but that’s changing soon too.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-mark-from-1-january-2021

 

[terrym]

Brexit was done purely on ideological grounds

No it wasnt. The UK electorate were asked a very basic question in 2016. In or Out. Out was the answer and in the lead up to the last GE that led to all sorts of shenanigans both from this side of the Channel and the other to try to keep us in. Like it or not the current government were voted in on a mandate of 'Get Brexit Done', which they did. It was never going to be easy to extricate ourselves from an unwilling partner and anyone who thought it would be was naive imo.
And UK Companies have had 12 months to manage the business risk associated with 01Jan2021, and should be reasonably prepared. However in mitigation, Covid has disrupted things as well, but its not like its only just happened and we are unique in dealing with its implications.

 

[foxy]

I can't imagine imagine what it would be like, some un elected bureaucrats full of self importance making rules and regulations for me. Poms did alright after being removed from the last Empire they were sectioned into, thrived in fact, Took a while last time, this time will be a quicker turnaround.

The container shortage is causing the snarl ups at docks around the world and it is due to Covid shipping cost have rose dramatically.

 

[Buffers brewery]

Not disagreeing, but that’s changing soon too.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-mark-from-1-january-2021

exporting to the continent suddenly products being made to UK standards is no longer sufficient.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the new regulations relate to goods being sold in the UK market not “exporting to the continent”. The CE mark is still the requirement for exporting goods to the EU. A case of maintaining the status quo.

 

[chopps]

I think that’s correct Buffers.
For anyone importing CE marked products for UK or NI use (like me and my customers) it’s going to be a pain and they will have to have the UKCA/UKNI mark. Probably as well as the CE and other marks if the manufacturer sells to various geographies or if re export is planned. Thats not maintaining the current rules. It’s a lot of work.

 

[Buffers brewery]

Forgive me @chopps I’ve been retired for a while now and it’s a good few years since I was tangled up in all things regulatory but I always understood it was for the manufacturer to demonstrate compliance (with any national or international regulations) prior to export so I don’t see how that’s a pain for you, the importer. I doubt, but I don’t know, that the requirements for the CE mark are significantly different to those for the new UKCA mark, just labelling......probably

 

[obscure]

No it wasnt. The UK electorate were asked a very basic question in 2016. In or Out. Out was the answer and in the lead up to the last GE that led to all sorts of shenanigans both from this side of the Channel and the other to try to keep us in. Like it or not the current government were voted in on a mandate of 'Get Brexit Done', which they did. It was never going to be easy to extricate ourselves from an unwilling partner and anyone who thought it would be was naive imo.
And UK Companies have had 12 months to manage the business risk associated with 01Jan2021, and should be reasonably prepared. However in mitigation, Covid has disrupted things as well, but its not like its only just happened and we are unique in dealing with its implications.

The problem is that Politics is not simple, Britain is a representative Democracy and putting what was in reality a horrendously complicated question out to a simple yes no question, was foolish, if it was no deal that was being put to the electorate I doubt it would have gone the way it did, the Brexiteers where selling a dream, To quote Donald Tusk “There will be “a special place in hell” for those who promoted Brexit without any plan for how to deliver it safely,”.

The leave campaign was based on being all things to all people, the notion that people actually voted for Brexit at any cost is questionable at best.

Lets have a few quotes from leading Brexiteers

In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. Nigel Farage, 16th May 2016

There is no plan for no deal, because we’re going to get a great deal. Boris Johnson, 11th July 2017

Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market’ – Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan

People where sold a dozen different versions of Brexit, the problem is that the leave campaign they didn’t need to bother explaining how exactly they intended to achieve it. People may have voted leave but I doubt their was ever a majority for a no deal Brexit we are now heading towards.

It also hasn’t helped that no business hasn’t know what will happen come January, making It near impossible to actually prepare in any meaningful way. Business generally assumed that the UK government would act in a rational and pragmatic fashion, heck even in the recent election Johnson was campaigning on his “oven ready” deal which shortly after being ratified he then claimed was unreasonable.

 

[chopps]

@Buffers brewery My employer is a distributor of electronic components. We buy all over the world and sell in the UK and EU. If it’s not marked correctly, I can’t put it on the market. We have many suppliers and correct, it’s on them to mark correctly. That might magically happen but it’s very likely not to based on past experience. We will have to pull products from sale in the UK if the time comes and they’re not ready for UKCA.

edit: and labelling sounds simple but as you probably recognise they can’t just whack a label on it, there will be a shed load of admin. And I understand that once UKCA is implemented, labels are gone. Needs to be permanently marked, so thats printing or mould tool changes etc ££££.

 

[Lesinge]

Of course yes - I really want to spend more on my cheese and diary products and have to get visas etc to travel around Europe. Also so happy that my children wont be able to study (for free!) in European Universities - its going to be wonderful.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I voted remain but I’m actually happy to go along with the decision to leave on the basis that maybe something good will come out of this.

However, over time (such a long time) I’ve seen nothing to make me think I made the wrong choice and nothing as yet to give me any confidence that we might actually benefit. With luck I’ll be proved wrong.

Unfortunately I’m left fearing that it will lead to a poor outcome and the leavers will say they voted for something different - if only they had

 

[chopps]

Of course yes - I really want to spend more on my cheese and diary products and have to get visas etc to travel around Europe. Also so happy that my children wont be able to study (for free!) in European Universities - its going to be wonderful.

:) What’s wrong with a bit of Stilton Lesinge?
And my milkman comes 3x per week, and delivers dairy products made locally. Can’t help you with the visa or education though, sorry.

 

[Buffers brewery]

@Buffers brewery My employer is a distributor of electronic components. We buy all over the world and sell in the UK and EU. If it’s not marked correctly, I can’t put it on the market. We have many suppliers and correct, it’s on them to mark correctly. That might magically happen but it’s very likely not to based on past experience. We will have to pull products from sale in the UK if the time comes and they’re not ready for UKCA.

edit: and labelling sounds simple but as you probably recognise they can’t just whack a label on it, there will be a shed load of admin. And I understand that once UKCA is implemented, labels are gone. Needs to be permanently marked, so thats printing or mould tool changes etc ££££.

They’ve got a year. I’ve seen companies spend thousands on promotional literature or new packaging just to promote their product in the market. It’s the cost of doing business. Nothing stays the same, thank goodness! Have you read “Who Moved My Cheese”?
On that note I’ll stop bothering you.Nice talking @chopps

 

[Buffers brewery]

I voted remain but I’m actually happy to go along with the decision to leave on the basis that maybe something good will come out of this.

However, over time (such a long time) I’ve seen nothing to make me think I made the wrong choice and nothing as yet to give me any confidence that we might actually benefit. With luck I’ll be proved wrong.

Unfortunately I’m left fearing that it will lead to a poor outcome and the leavers will say they voted for something different - if only they had

I was with you until the last sentence!

 

[dad_of_jon]

@dad_of_jon , Just noticed that you're from Swansea.
Is Dirty Dora's still there, down by the marina?

sorry mate, I never heard of her.

 

[chopps]

It’s the cost of doing business

Yes it is. I know some manufacturers might not bother if the cost of compliance doen’t make sense. I had it this year with a radio transmitter module manufacturer. The sort of device that’s inside a bluetooth or wifi thingy but a different frequency. The UK regulator complained that the modules we sold were not CE marked and we pulled them from sale. The manufacturer is not bothering to go for compliance and will focus on China customers. They’ll come back into the UK as finished equipment with a CE mark and UK doesn’t get to make the finished equipment. And that’s CE never mind just the UK market... Hey Ho.

 

[strange-steve]

I don't know anything about politics so can someone tell me this (genuine question btw):
How will Brexit affect my ability to travel to Belgium for a long weekend of heavy drinking (assuming the Covid thing goes away eventually)? I'm from NI which might make a difference.