Would I be okay without a starter

[Covrich]

My gut feeling on this is yes

Basically I bottled my brew 2 and a bit weeks ago 21st.. I harvested some yeast .. I had a fair bit but I made a 2 liter starter wort 2 weeks ago today and 1 week ago I fridged it and then split it off into to jars (throwing the trub away)

what I have now a week later is this


So if I make a brew next week would I be okay to decant most of the beer, swill it around and pitch it into the wort.. from my picture I think I have a fair amount

Any advice?

I put a bottle next to it for scale of jar size

 

[MyQul]

If your planning to put both jars in, yes, I think you should just about be ok . Me personally, I'd still make as starter as I like to pitch at high krausen

Have you measured how much you've got?

 

[Covrich]

The big jar is about 15mm thick and the small about 5mm..

of course they are big jars if it was in a smaller jar it would be about 25mm thick

my only ever caution would be that I brew now outside on a burner hence when cooling I am possibly a little more exposed (I plan to steep some flameout hops at 0 mins at about 80 ish so I could bring inside for the final cool down) therefore the healthier kick off the better..

Maybe I will make a small starter like 70dme / 700ml just to kick things off the day before and dump that all in.

 

[MyQul]

I think even a 500ml would help a lot. At the mo the yeast is in 'hibernation' mode. Putting it in a small starter will wake it up and get it ready for the wort

 

[stevej]

I think even a 500ml would help a lot. At the mo the yeast is in 'hibernation' mode. Putting it in a small starter will wake it up and get it ready for the wort

Excuse my ignorance if you look at it that way why do we use dried yeast

 

[MyQul]

Excuse my ignorance if you look at it that way why do we use dried yeast

Sorry steve, what exactly are you asking? Why you don't put dried yeast in a starter?

 

[stevej]

Sorry steve, what exactly are you asking? Why you don't put dried yeast in a starter?

No we culture up yeast and we say ? we use liquid yeasts and say? we use dried yeasts and say? do you not think we are looking into the science part to much!! i must admit i have not cultured a yeast, but i have used liquid yeasts a good few times with and without making starters i have never had a brew fail yet, i understand making a starter gives the yeast its best possible chances, then we move to dried yeasts sprinkle on top or stir ive done both and still have not had a fail were do we stop ??

 

[Covrich]

No we culture up yeast and we say ? we use liquid yeasts and say? we use dried yeasts and say? do you not think we are looking into the science part to much!! i must admit i have not cultured a yeast, but i have used liquid yeasts a good few times with and without making starters i have never had a brew fail yet, i understand making a starter gives the yeast its best possible chances, then we move to dried yeasts sprinkle on top or stir ive done both and still have not had a fail were do we stop ??

To be honest If I decnated the majority of this and gyrated the jar to swill it and pitched in my wort next Saturday I am sure it would probably be fine.. it would have been 3½ weeks since I harvested and I did harvest with a sizable starter because it was a very trubby brew...

However like I said before I brew on a burner outside, when I cool there is a slightly greater exposure so a fast and healthy fermentation is something I think is def worth considering.. I haven't had one infected yet (touch wood) but I am more conscious about it..

As you can gather I am by no means an expert but like all of us I have looked around too and a lot of people seem to favour using one to give the best results or best chance..

MQ- I think your should of a pint starter is a good one.. just to get thinsg warmed up the night before :thumb:

 

[MyQul]

No we culture up yeast and we say ? we use liquid yeasts and say? we use dried yeasts and say? do you not think we are looking into the science part to much!! i must admit i have not cultured a yeast, but i have used liquid yeasts a good few times with and without making starters i have never had a brew fail yet, i understand making a starter gives the yeast its best possible chances, then we move to dried yeasts sprinkle on top or stir ive done both and still have not had a fail were do we stop ??

You right you can do all the things you say and still have a brew 'ferment'. However having the aim of 'not having a brew fail' and just ending up with beer is not the be all and end all for some people.

e.g. if you don't make a starter and you under pitch, the beer might achieve it's target FG but underpiching stresses the yeast and causes it to produce fruity esters which you wouldn't want in your, supposed to be, clean tasting American PA

If you want to harvest the yeast stressing it by underpitching can produce mutants so the next time you come to use it it wont 'act' as expected (e.g. higher flucctuation than expected, lower attenuaton)

Cov has stated on numerous occasions that he brews outside so requires low lag times to prevent infection. A starter will reduce lags time.

Yes, just chucking you yeast in the wort will work (I've done it numerous time) but ideally you want the healthiest yeast. It's like using grain that's stale. It'll produce beer but not the best

 

[stevej]

You right you can do all the things you say and still have a brew 'ferment'. However having the aim of 'not having a brew fail' and just ending up with beer is not the be all and end all for some people.

e.g. if you don't make a starter and you under pitch, the beer might achieve it's target FG but underpiching stresses the yeast and causes it to produce fruity esters which you wouldn't want in your, supposed to be, clean tasting American PA

If you want to harvest the yeast stressing it by underpitching can produce mutants so the next time you come to use it it wont 'act' as expected (e.g. higher flucctuation than expected, lower attenuaton)

Cov has stated on numerous occasions that he brews outside so requires low lag times to prevent infection. A starter will reduce lags time.

Yes, just chucking you yeast in the wort will work (I've done it numerous time) but ideally you want the healthiest yeast. It's like using grain that's stale. It'll produce beer but not the best

Oh @MyQul so how many times would you re use a yeast that had been the dried variety from trub

 

[MyQul]

Oh @MyQul so how many times would you re use a yeast that had been the dried variety from trub

It would depend on how you reused it. Anything from 6 to 13+, Personally 've neve got further than about 4 gens but that's because I've switched strain so had to start again at gen 1

 

[stevej]

It would depend on how you reused it. Anything from 6 to 13+, Personally 've neve got further than about 4 gens but that's because I've switched strain so had to start again at gen 1

Well theres where opinions vary i have 2 friends that have micro breweries and both use dried yeasts of not none strains to me but they have both said they would never consider using it more than twice and il pm you there numbers if you wish

 

[MyQul]

Well theres where opinions vary i have 2 friends that have micro breweries and both use dried yeasts of not none strains to me but they have both said they would never consider using it more than twice and il pm you there numbers if you wish

I don't disbelieve you. Micro (and any other commercial size) breweries have different priorities to home brewers. Have you asked them why they only go to 2 gens? I suspect it's for consistancy, something us HBers don't have to be as/that concerned about. Just because you shouldn't do something(or there's a risk in doing so) doesn't mean you can't do it

 

[stevej]

I don't disbelieve you. Micro (and any other commercial size) breweries have different priorities to home brewers. Have you asked them why they only go to 2 gens? I suspect it's for consistancy, something us HBers don't have to be as/that concerned about. Just because you shouldn't do something(or there's a risk in doing so) doesn't mean you can't do it

Simple answer MyQyul #7

If you wish i will send you a email address via pm if you wish not to talk and rather ask via email

 

[MyQul]

No need, like I say Steve, I don't disbeleive you. In a perfect world with out costs, HBers would use a new packet/vial/smakpak of yeast every brew. Reusing yeast just helps with the costs. I'm sure if it were somehow possible we'd reuse hops and grains too

 

[stevej]

No need, like I say Steve, I don't disbeleive you. In a perfect world with out costs, HBers would use a new packet/vial/smakpak of yeast every brew. Reusing yeast just helps with the costs. I'm sure if it were somehow possible we'd reuse hops and grains too

If a micro brewery at the same time thought it was viable to go over using dried yeasts 2/3 times would they not ? we all have costs and QC

 

[stevej]

Maybe we all need to put a lot more into practice instead of reading and taking peoples word for it so we can all can say ive done it :drink:

 

[MyQul]

If a micro brewery at the same time thought it was viable to go over using dried yeasts 2/3 times would they not ? we all have costs and QC

I guess it depends on how much time and effort it 'costs' them to harvest it. Dried yeast is available in 'bricks' which makes it much cheap buying in bulk. Something not do-able for the average HBer (how long would it take you to use 500g of yeast? That much would probably last me 5 years :lol:)

 

[stevej]

I guess it depends on how much time and effort it 'costs' them to harvest it. Dried yeast is available in 'bricks' which makes it much cheap buying in bulk. Something not do-able for the average HBer (how long would it take you to use 500g of yeast? That much would probably last me 5 years :lol:)

Not at all if your going 5000 generations

 

[MyQul]

Not at all if your going 5000 generations

Think it might have mutated by then into Yeastzilla and destroyed the whole of the north :lol: