Worth investing in a pump, or more important things?

[ThreeSheets]

Get er brewed Ferminator as I recall ..

Yep thank you so much... annoying though, it's just marginally over budget (+£70 ish) even on a black friday sale

 

[Agentgonzo]

At the minute I'm leaning toward into how to get a clear beer filter

With a few fining additions, you get get "pretty clear" beer into the fermenter. This is what I get with a small protafloc addition a bit of whirlpooling and relying on the simple hop filter that you get with the grainfather which is designed to stop the pump clogging. No special filtering in place

From there, if you let the beer settle in the fermenter, you get "clear" beer once it's been bottled/kegged you can see straight through. If you want crystal clear beer, you can get extra filters, but if you filter out all the yeast there won't be any to bottle condition.

But don't forget that "clear beer into the fermenter" does not equate to "clear beer in the glass". https://brulosophy.com/2020/05/11/kettle-trub-low-vs-high-in-a-german-pils-exbeeriment-results/

 

[MashBag]

None taken, I am indeed looking at an excuse to spend the money - it's a Christmas present from my wife so it's basically a "will get spent" kind of situation since I'm spending the same amount for her. It's either beer kit or clothes, so I'm going with beer kit.

As for books, I have "How to Brew" the excellent bible by John Palmer. I have another I forget the name of which is more from my student days doing condensed wort brews.

At the minute I'm leaning toward into how to get a clear beer filter and pump combo for under £150. I can't seem to find any temp control that fits in the budget if you have any suggestions... I do recall there was some sort of polystrene boxes you could stick your fermenter in which used a peltier module and fan to do the control, can't remember what that was called though. As for all-in-ones that won't fit in the budget and I'm more hoping to build my gear slowly toward those very versatile looking three vessel systems once we've got more space.

Unfortunately clear beer seems to require knowledge on micron size filters and particle sizes, don't know if anyone has a good resource for that? Just looking here and suppose if I want to bottle condition I need the yeast to get through but nothing above that I guess?

Gotcha. Completely understand..

Bouncer beer filter + 2 filter pack.
Could do this and a pump.
(tip pumps don't have to be stainless unless you are buying beer porn)

Inkbird & something from
https://www.pecoservices.co.uk/homebrew-products-8-c.asp

Please keep away from the peltier, they really over promise.

 

[ThreeSheets]

With a few fining additions, you get get "pretty clear" beer into the fermenter. This is what I get with a small protafloc addition a bit of whirlpooling and relying on the simple hop filter that you get with the grainfather which is designed to stop the pump clogging. No special filtering in place

From there, if you let the beer settle in the fermenter, you get "clear" beer once it's been bottled/kegged you can see straight through. If you want crystal clear beer, you can get extra filters, but if you filter out all the yeast there won't be any to bottle condition.

But don't forget that "clear beer into the fermenter" does not equate to "clear beer in the glass". https://brulosophy.com/2020/05/11/kettle-trub-low-vs-high-in-a-german-pils-exbeeriment-results/

I'm currently using supermoss by fivestar, any chance you know if protafloc is better? I have had a situation where I used supermoss on a blond ale and it didn't do anything for me (took a good few months to clear up). I'm getting a bit stressed out by additives for water chemistry and clarity, I think I need to do a comparison of the same recipe with and without because I suspect they could be screwing up my taste sometimes. I haven't made any undrinkable beer as a result but I'm just not happy with something here, and I suspect it could be salts or lactic acid.

I need to run few a bit more research for clear beer - definitely agree though, I'm still going to end up with sediment in the bottle as yeast drops out, which will always cloud if you don't get a good pour out anyway. I suppose waiting a long time in the fermenter and secondary transfers to another is a good way to get a lot of drop out. I always secondary transfer these days to get a lot of the trub of the way when I bottle. When bottling I'll do a final transfer into a bucket with some priming sugar and that is quite good at stopping too much crud getting through.

What I'd like to do is minimise that amount by eliminating any extra crud which might contribute to the sediment and/or haziness. There's an old paper here (figure 3) that seems to show there's a good bit of particles present that are above yeast diameters (5-10 micron) I can maybe get those out with some benefit?

 

[Agentgonzo]

I'm currently using supermoss by fivestar, any chance you know if protafloc is better?

I don't, I'm afraid

 

[ThreeSheets]

Gotcha. Completely understand..

Bouncer beer filter + 2 filter pack.
Could do this and a pump.
(tip pumps don't have to be stainless unless you are buying beer porn)

Inkbird & something from
https://www.pecoservices.co.uk/homebrew-products-8-c.asp

Please keep away from the peltier, they really over promise.

Thanks, I think based on other comments about getting a pump blocked I'll get a bouncer filter upstream to stop any crud coming through. It's not a very fine filter, but I guess it's something required regardless. Most filtering systems seem uses a bigger diameter to protect or at least not spend up the finer ones.

Yeah from what I understand the peltier effect is a fairly weak physics phenomena, so it's not particularly efficient using electricity to swing a temperature difference. Is there anything that competes in that price range though? Glycol system looks expensive, maybe just sticking it in an old fridge with a smart controller?

 

[MashBag]

It's not a very fine filter,

Get the bouncer filter pack. The unit comes with one, the plus pack gets you 2 finer ones

Glycol system looks expensive, maybe just sticking it in an old fridge with a smart controller?

I put a 25l salt water reservoir in the fridge. Inkbird controlled pond pump to a coil in the fv. Very good. But Tbh in the UK it is not really an issue.

There is a thread about it somewhere.

 

[ThreeSheets]

Get the bouncer filter pack. The unit comes with one, the plus pack gets you 2 finer ones



I put a 25l salt water reservoir in the fridge. Inkbird controlled pond pump to a coil in the fv. Very good. But Tbh in the UK it is not really an issue.

There is a thread about it somewhere.

Okay that's a good plan. I can get everything in budget but the spares, but I won't be brewing until next year so I'll order those with my next recipe.

From what I can see online, BevBright 5 micron filters have instructions that say you need about 3-5 psi, which is about 3.5 m of head, and if I assume I need at least 2m of height difference to get from ground to the shelf, then I'm expecting about 6m of head or more with the bouncer and future fine filter, so that cuts out most of the basic pump ranges which sucks. but it seems like the prices between something like the MP-15RN at 3.4m head is just as expensive as the 20m head ones. Seems a bit odd.

 

[peebee]

I really don't like that "Bouncer" product:

Why are we in the UK spending a fortune on these things imported from the USA, which the "Bouncer" company probably imported from China, when we can go on eBay and purchase exactly the same things (with many more options if you want them) direct from China (actually a UK warehouse stuffed with stuff from China) for a fraction of the price and a fraction of the waiting time?

I never knew what these "Bouncer" things were until I looked at one of the above links and noticed I'd got a drawer stuffed with them.



While I'm moaning ...

I'm currently using supermoss by fivestar, any chance you know if protafloc is better?

They are more or less the same. Based on carrageenan (Irish "Moss"), a commonly used "copper fining", they remove the sort of haze-causing material present in the unfermented wort. It does nothing for haze stuff introduced after the boil (yeast, dead mice, etc.) because it removed itself at the same time (i.e. before fermentation).

 

[Clint]

Unless you're a vulcan or something you can use gelatin to clear your beer in the keg...not tried myself as I'm not bothered. You could get a glass you can't see through. I found the biggest criticism for cloudy or hazy beer was from those getting it FREE.

 

[ThreeSheets]

Why are we in the UK spending a fortune on these things imported from the USA, which the "Bouncer" company probably imported from China....

I never knew what these "Bouncer" things were until I looked at one of the above links and noticed I'd got a drawer stuffed with them.

I partially agree, though they do seem to market it with "Made in the USA" so maybe they have a lot in common with Bruce Springsteen. Although I'm sure in the US you can make a lot of spurious claims when it comes to marketing.

Where I totally agree import wise is what on earth are we doing relying on US import for beer kit AND hops. We used to have a huge hop industry up at 3000 producers, down to just 45 now. Considering the trend in very hop leaning beers we pay a fortune for a hoppy homebrew relative to US homebrewers because of that dependency. I think the same about cheese but that's another rant, the UK could be doing so much better if we made and exported (while we still have a reputation for quality product) - there are huge number of barriers to doing that sort of thing now though.

Rant over... thanks for the carrageenan info, hadn't though about it only being pertinent to the boil (thought it helped during fermentation too) but it makes a lot more sense - will keep adding it to the lighter beers.

 

[ThreeSheets]

Unless you're a vulcan or something you can use gelatin to clear your beer in the keg...not tried myself as I'm not bothered. You could get a glass you can't see through. I found the biggest criticism for cloudy or hazy beer was from those getting it FREE.

Thanks, I'm aware of gelatin addition as a method, I've came close to trying it but something did stop me last time... I think it was the either the supermarket packaging that put me off, or the "not another addition step". I think once I get some spare time back in my life and brew day doesn't feel like a rush to cram into my schedule I'll probably give it a try along with a bit more serious water profiling.

 

[MashBag]

Why are we in the UK spending a fortune on these things imported from the USA, which the "Bouncer" company probably imported from China, when we can go on eBay and purchase exactly the same things (with many more options if you want them) direct from China (actually a UK warehouse stuffed with stuff from China) for a fraction of the price and a fraction of the waiting time?

Not sure they are the same.
I had other filtering requirements and tried the Chineseium versions first. OK for water, but not so good for beer.

Things may have changed... But all inline filters wete not the same (bit like chainsaw files )

 

[hoppyscotty]

Depending on the size of your fermenter then as good fermentation control as you need can be had for less than £50...get an old larder fridge off Facebook Marketplace...I've had them for as little as a tenner before, ink bird for £20 and a 40w eBay greenhouse tube heater and you're off. And by far an away the biggest improvement to my beer when I introduced it. massive step change in improvement in fermentation and the outcome of the beer. The second biggest improvement was when I started messing about with water chemistry...so PH initially then profiles. Still on a learner curve on that but what I'm doing now definitely makes a noticeable difference.

 

[rekabmit]

For heating I suppose I could use just a hot water bottle instead of freezer blocks no? I've not needed heating this far so I've no clue

Here's a christmas beer I'm doing at the minute - do these fluctuations in temp look okay to you the way I'm doing it? Maybe a steadier system makes a massive difference on taste? (The rise at the end Nov 24th onward is part of a recommendation)
View attachment 106263
View attachment 106264

Now I am jealous did you make the graphs or are they from your spindle thing?

 

[ThreeSheets]

Now I am jealous did you make the graphs or are they from your spindle thing?

The data comes from the iSpindel, and from that I made simple website application for my Raspberry Pi - it's just a simple graph system that uses Flask, Javascript and a local SQL database. If you want I can make the code public on Github.

 

[Clint]

And here's me having a mental yesterday not reading my hydrometer correctly thinking the beer I was about to keg was stuck on 1.016!

 

[ThreeSheets]

And here's me having a mental yesterday not reading my hydrometer correctly thinking the beer I was about to keg was stuck on 1.016!

Haha, I'm terrible at reading glass ones because of the parallax and surface tension adding to the confusion - it's probably the more accurate option right before bottling though just to make sure any electronic sensors are out of calibration.