Worst brew-day ever, any ideas?

[Keruso]

Hi all,
I had the worst brew-day ever this weekend. I made a beer I have brewed several times before with no problems. I use a Grainfather G30, with the new false bottom. Grain bill: -
Maris Otter 6kg
Rye Malt 1kg
Carapils 0.5kg

Problem 1 Usually when I start the mash, it’s milky at the beginning getting progressively clearer as time goes by. At the end of the mash the wort is usually very clear. This time the wort was still quite cloudy at the end. Nothing to worry about so I thought.

Problem 2 Very slow sparge, almost stuck. Even with digging around with a mash paddle.

Problem 3 The boil. I’ve used the false bottom several times, no problem. This time the heater safety trip kicked in at about thirty minutes in, I could hear a severe boiling sound just before, I also noticed that the false bottom was raised because I could push it down with the mash paddle. After I reset the trip, the same thing happened time and time again. So I gave up with the boil, I assumed the false bottom was clogged.

Problem 4 Cool and transfer to fermenter. The pump was very slow, I had to keep gently scraping the false bottom to get the pump to work.

Problem 5 Pump seized. When I started the cleaning process the pump didn’t work. I had to remove and strip it down to find gloop like stuff on the blades and in the rotor. After cleaning and reinstalling the pump thankfully it worked.

Problem 6 I had the worst scorched bottom I’ve ever seen.

My observations, When I emptied the malt pipe, at the bottom of the pipe the grain looked very gloopy, and sticky, a bit like it was mixed with wallpaper paste. No wonder the stuck sparge, and the seized pump. The only thing I can think of is whether the grain had lots of flour in it. Not sure what else it could be, any thoughts.

 

[brewhaha]

Sounds like possibly a finer grain crush than usual?

Rye can be sticky but not as bad as you've described when it's only 1 in 7.5 kg.

Fingers crossed you still get a beer out of it at the end!

 

[The Baron]

Looks like the rye for some reason has caused a worse than normal stuck mash with maybe a finer crush of grain(could be new? or maybe the bottom of a sack where sometimes a lot of flour gathers). This has probably means you have had less flow to the bottom pump and heater causing a burn on the bottom not helped by the false bottom moving too which will have helped to clog the pump with grain and any flour in it will burn on the element.
Pu it down to experience unless you can find the absolute cause which you can then take action for the next brew.
We all get problem brews every now and again just to keep us on our toes

 

[Stu's Brews]

As others have intimated, it is most likely the high protein content in the Rye malt that has caused the issues you've experienced today.

As you've brewed the recipe before without issue the best place to start is looking at the ingredients themselves:

• Have you purchased the rye malt from the same place?
• Is it the same brand of rye malt?
• Is the grain crush the same as previously?

Other thoughts/questions that may help understand other things that could be exacerbating the issues:

• Are you doing a protein rest? This may be what is causing the excessive amount of protein to form on the bottom of the kettle.
• Are you using any rice hulls? These can help prevent getting a stuck mash or sparge when using high protein malts.
• Did you hit your target original gravity?
• Has anything else changed in either your equipment or ingredients since you last brewed the recipe?

 

[MashBag]

7.5kg total grain is certainly a good measure in a g30. That's a big beer.

You don't mention the mashing liquor volume and by the fact you are sparging I guess you are reserving some.

I am thinking gelatinization, you just bunged it up.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Everything leads to being bunged up as Mashbag says.

Next brew, give the mash a good stir with your paddle after about 5 minutes, and then again after 10. You should notice the flow rate through the grain bed increases as lot but doing that. Which may help with all the downstream issues

 

[Buffers brewery]

I'd recommend a beta-glucan rest, 40C-50C for 30 minutes before mashing. I do this regularly with any brew with oats (rye has similar issues I believe) and don't get stuck mashes anymore.

 

[foxy]

I try to avoid rye malt like the plague, not only do I not like milling it I don't like brewing with it. If a recipe has malted rye I have subbed it for flaked rye for less of a problem. But if you want to eliminate the problem altogether just use malted rye extract.

 

[Keruso]

Thanks everyone, useful advice. So it seems likely the gloopy stuff at the bottom of the malt pipe was gelatinised starch. I'm puzzled why, when I have made this beer several times, but i'll certainly do your recommendations.

 

[Deadhead]

Sounds a proper nightmare of a brew day to me! Did you use any rice hulls with in that mash? That should help the sparge. Also make sure you really give everything a good stir as you dough in.
Does the false bottom normally lift up in brewing? Can see how that would then cause the wort to bung up the filter and scorch on the element.

Have you made that beer before with the false bottom in?

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Sounds like a perfect storm of things coming together to cause all that, I like using Rye Malt but always scorch my bottom when brewing with it.

 

[MashBag]

Sounds a proper nightmare of a brew day to me! Did you use any rice hulls with in that mash?

No chance. There wasn't any room left

As for the false bottom moving....
What would cause out to lift. Genuinely interested, for a "pump over" AIO I can't see a condition that would cause that?

 

[MashBag]

Thanks everyone, useful advice. So it seems likely the gloopy stuff at the bottom of the malt pipe was gelatinised starch. I'm puzzled why, when I have made this beer several times, but i'll certainly do your recommendations.

It is surprising how little rye can become a complete arse. I am also posting another vote for malted rye.

And full volume TBH. AIOs really need a bit of extra juice IMO.

Ps. Have you discovered "barkeepers friend" already?

 

[Keruso]

No chance. There wasn't any room left

As for the false bottom moving....
What would cause out to lift. Genuinely interested, for a "pump over" AIO I can't see a condition that would cause that?

When I took the false bottom out there was a fair amount of the gloopy stuff blocking the holes. Which I suspect meant that the heater was only heating the wort on the underside very vigorously, causing it to push up the plate.

 

[Keruso]

It is surprising how little rye can become a complete ****. I am also posting another vote for malted rye.

And full volume TBH. AIOs really need a bit of extra juice IMO.

Ps. Have you discovered "barkeepers friend" already?

Hi, it was malted Rye, for the scorching I find 100g of citric acid diluted in 500ml of boiling water, left overnight, then scrape off with a wooden spatular works really well. I use pink stuff or barkeepers too when needed.

 

[Keruso]

No chance. There wasn't any room left

As for the false bottom moving....
What would cause out to lift. Genuinely interested, for a "pump over" AIO I can't see a condition that would cause that?

No I didn't use rice hulls, I have managed to get 8kg grain in the G30, but it's a bit of a squeeze.

 

[MashBag]

No I didn't use rice hulls, I have managed to get 8kg grain in the G30, but it's a bit of a squeeze.

Yikes. (that's all I have)

 

[MashBag]

C'mon you gotta share the volume of water at least ?

And to be fair what are you making that's EleventyBillionPercentProof.
Or should I not ask, cos we don't discuss rye based products of that nature?

 

[Keruso]

C'mon you gotta share the volume of water at least ?

And to be fair what are you making that's EleventyBillionPercentProof.
Or should I not ask, cos we don't discuss rye based products of that nature?

Hi,
It’s a clone recipe of an American IPA by Hoppin Frog. 8%, which is big but also very good when I have made it before. Water volume is 24.3L mash and 8.67L sparge

 

[The Baron]

I do not think the false bottom would lift with 7.5kg of wet grain pushing down on it IMO.
You say it is a grainbill you have used before so has anything changed i.e different supplier and was the grain exactly the same (same supplier and crush). It was also a big grainbill which the bigger they are the more time it takes to flow through it so you would possibly starve the bottom reservoir of wort/water.
You must have maxed out the G30 with that bill and water amount